sallysaab

I look forward to your comments on the following, so far Kennedy has been the only one to get it right and to give us a quote.
Nairobi - Samburu 2 nights, Serena Lodge or similar
Lake Nakuru 1 night, Sarova Lion Hill or similar
Masai Mara 2 nights, Mara Serena or similar
Serengeti 2 nights, Serena or similar
Ngorongoro Crater 2 nights Serena or similar
Lake Manyara 1 night, you guessed it Serena or similar
From there fly back to Nairobi and down to Motswari in the Timbavati for 3 nights rest and then home to Sydney after a night at De Wildt

sandi

That's a very basic itinerary staying in Serena properties... what have you been getting from others?

Comments:
1) It's almost a 6/hr drive NBO/Samburu.
2) It's another 6/hr drive Samburu/Nakuru
3) And, another 6/hr drive Nakuru to Mara and only for 2/nights?
- you'll only have 1-1/2 days actually.
4) Assume you're flying between Mara/Serengeti? Or are you driving? If driving, a very very long day; not much shorter if flying as you have to catch the afternoon flight to Serengeti giving you only 1-1/2 days.
- If at the Serena, it's in the central area!
- you should consider the southern or Ndutu areas.
- it's going to be a long dayonly 2/nts.
- the wildebeest herds are here at that time, you might want to consider 1/less nt at Ngorongoro
5) Ngorongoro is good, but 1/less nt.
6) Manyara is good
7) From Manyara to Nairobi won't have you back at JKIA before 2pm earliest.
8) Flight from NBO/JNB is 4/hrs. Will you be overnighting in JNB or flying direct to Timbavati?

Quite hectic for 12/nts.

Bill_H

<b>Serengeti 2 nights, Serena or similar
Ngorongoro Crater 2 nights Serena or similar
Lake Manyara 1 night, you guessed it Serena</b>

Sally, we returned last week from a trip to this area, staying at Serenas in Manyara and Serengeti. I put up some pics on the thread &quot;20 Tanzania pics from Bill &amp; Carolyn&quot; ... based on what we saw (and earlier trips, including 7 nights at Serena Serengti in April 2006) I think you would be better off spending the two Serengeti nights further south in March. Ndutu Lodge still had some openings for March 09 when we were there 10 days ago, or you could try Kusini, or even the Serengeti Sopa is in a better spot for the migration that time of year.

If you look at the 20 pics I posted a couple were taken at Manyara (baby ellie, a bird or two) but all the rest were taken from Ndutu, where we saw 27 cheetahs (vs none at Serengeti Serena) and more lions, also a leopard. Not a single image from Serengeti Serena made our top 20, which is telling. Serengeti Serena is a nice lodge but I feel it's not in the best place that time of year, it's in the woodlands and the big herds are more likely to be on the short grass plains further south. Also you can't drive off-road there, while you can do so at Ndutu, and Ndutu is much less crowded than the central Serengeti area.

For Ngorongoro Crater we've always preferred the Sopa (even though Serena is a nicer lodge) because the drive to the crater floor is shorter and there are no other hotels on that side, so for a while in the AM you have a bit more privacy. We skipped the crater this year but have been there on two earlier trips.

As for Kenya, we were there in January and did OK, though not as well as in Tanzania. We stayed not far from the Mara Serena at Mara Intrepids, which was in a good location but may be more expensive than Serena. Here's a link to 20 or so photos from Kenya, including Mara and Nakuru ... http://www.hiltonphotography.net/africa/08_01_kenya/

I would try to arrange to fly between the stops in Kenya, the roads are terrible and dusty and full of traffic.

Hope this helps. Basically it's a good plan if you don't mind moving so much, except for trading central Serengeti for south Serengeti (Ndutu is actually on the border with Serengeti on the NCA side).

Bill

sallysaab

Thank you for your comments, I'm stressing to the max, as 2 friends are coming with me &amp; want to get it right for them.
We knew about the long drives and figured we'd get to see &quot;Africa&quot;, or not?
Sandi, all our operators say Serena or similar, guess they start at the top &amp; work backwards.
And no we are/were driving to Serengeti.
Checked out Ndutu &amp; it looks great.
Would you suggest extra night at Ndutu?

Patty

Which legs are you flying and which are driving?

Do you plan to go from Manyara to Timbavati in one day? You won't make the morning NBO-JNB flight. It'll be evening by the time you reach JNB.

sallysaab

Also Sandi, we are doing an overnight in J'burg before heading up to the Timbavati, only way to work the flights.
Bill, will change to the Sopa, thanks, have also looked at Intrepids.
I appreciate the roads are dusty, have you driven in the Aussie Outback, but we were hoping we'd get to see things along the way.
Yes it is hectic, but we've only got a limited time due to our babysitter.
Oh, why only 1 night at the crater.
Thanks again I apprecitate your advice.

sallysaab

Patty, thanks. Flying only Arusha - Nairobi, got to get back in time to go to Sheldricks again, hehehe

Patty

Sandi has given you some of the other drive times. From the Mara to Central Serengeti via the Isebania/Sirari border is a 10 hour drive. Many opt to spend a night at Speke Bay on Lake Victoria to break up the drive. It's not just the dust. The roads are rutted and bumpy too. How are the roads in the outback?

atravelynn

The advice you have gotten so far will help you get it right for you and your friends. In March it will not be as dusty as some times due to more rain that time of year.

&quot;Why 1 nt at the crator?&quot;
The one night less in Ngorongoro would allow another day in the Mara, where 2 nights is not much. Or you could swap it for an extra night in Ndutu. Spending 1 night in the crater is common. I like Bill's Sopa suggetion. The views from your crater lodging will be lovely when the fog is not rolling in (and it can roll in and out a couple of times in an hour) so you may want to keep 2 nights and 2 nts also affords a break from the many long drives.

In March, the highlight will be the Southern Serengeti. You could swap the Mara for the Serengeti, saving yourself a long drive and then you'd have another 2 days to play with. The Serengeti and Mara are the same swath of land, it's just the countries that label them different names. I'd definitely spend all of my Serengeti days in Ndutu if traveling in March, and if you only have a few days to devote to the Serengeti.

sallysaab

Lynn, thanks will check that out with our agent.
Bill your photos are excellent. I think my own number 1 photo, would be of a mother hippo and her baby in Chobe, they were on the bank of the river and she was resting her nose/mouth very gently on the baby's back

sandi

While Samburu offers elephants and unique species, Amboseli with elephants and views of Kilimanjaro is an option; saves on flights. And, with so few days today, for March you can pass on the Masai Mara (oops blasphemy... but true) as most of the action will be in the Serengeti.

You may want to consider instead:

Opt. #1
Day 1 - Fly to Samburu - o/n
Day 2 - Samburu - o/n
Day 3 - Fly to NBO; Fly to Kili; drive to Manyara - o/n
Day 4 - Drive to Ngorongoro; afternoon crater tour - o/n
Day 5 - Ngo; option: morning crater tour; p.m.; drive to Nduto or Southern Serengeti - o/n
Days 6, 7 &amp; 8 - Ndutu or S.Serengeti - o/n
Day 9 - Fly via Arusha to NBO; fly to JNB.

Opt. #2
Day 1 - Drive to Amboseli - o/n
Day 2 - Amboseli - o/n
Day 3 - Drive via Arusha to Manyara - o/n
Day 4 - 9 - as above.

With Opt. #2 you save the cost of flights to/from Samburu and to Kilimanjaro.

atravelynn

I felt pangs of &quot;blasphemy... but true&quot; also when I wrote no need for the Mara in March.

To help decide from this growing list of options, what were your goals for the trip?

See huge herds? Then Southern Serengeti (Ndutu) is a must.

See as much of a variety of habitats and parks as possible in the time available? Then that original itinerary, with just the tweak of Ndutu for Serena in the Serengeti is good.

Maximize different species? Then you definitely want Samburu, which has unique species and Nakuru has the flamingos and some different giraffes.

Cats? Then I'd put the Mara back in, even in March and even at the expense of some of your other Kenya stops.

Beautiful Scenery? Then including Amboseli with likely views of Kili is good. Two nights at the crater allows this breathtaking place to sink in more.

In depth wildlife viewing with plenty of time for photography? Then fewer places with more time at each.

sallysaab

Wow guys, it's endless isn't it, the possibilities!
We'll go back and see Amboseli cause we'd also like to go to Tsavo.
Would also like to see Southern Tanzania as well.
But to do the &quot;tourist circuit&quot; before it becomes any busier, a bitumen road with tolls every 100k's will have to be the plan for now.
I will make a few adjustments thanks to your advice.

sandi

Visiting the Southern Tanzania parks - Selous, Ruaha - in March are very hot. At lower altitude, lots of brush... gives you that &quot;closed in&quot; feel. Many of the lodgings here have fans to cool off, especially for sleeping.

steffid

Sandi,

have you been to Ruaha and Selous? It was always an option but I never was sure if it is worth giong and if, when is the best time to go. Isn't it too big and wild to see a lot of animals?

steffid

Oh, an Sally,

dont rush like this through Kenya and Tanzania. You will miss the time you need to have good safari-adventure. It is always nice to have the ooportunity to come back the next day again, eg to a lions pride making a kill one day or to a cheetah with her puppies. Just one day in the same place wont give you the right feeling to be on safari - sorry, I dont know how to decribe it. But its diffrent from visiting cities, you wont get the right impression just out of one day in the Mara or at Samburu.

sallysaab

Well we've changed the plans a little, cancelled the Timbavati this time and added a couple of days here and there, but it seems Ndutu is booked out.
Can you suggest something similar please?
Patty the roads in the Outback on the whole arent too bad, except for after the rainy season, but the bulldust is something else, like talcum powder, there is nothing it doeant get into. I think the worst corrugations I've been on were in far Nth Qld, where you have to drive very fast to get over them, we broke the welds in our Landcruiser.
I'll post the corrections when I get them.
Happy Easter to you all.

atravelynn

There are a variety of mobile tented camps, but they are usually more expensive than Ndutu.

Kiliwarriors has a good listing of camps and mobiles.
http://www.kiliwarriors.com/safari_camps_lodges.htm