In November, you may be better off visiting the Serengeti, which, together with the Masai Mara, is part of one large ecosystem, and with your short time, skipping Lake Nakuru (I haven't been there, but it seems out of the way). If you focus on Tanzania, you could contact Roys Safaris about visit to Crater, Serengeti and Zanzibar. By cutting out Kenya, you'll save yourself a lot of traveling time, and NBO is still a great airport for visiting Tanzania.

Michael

You sound like me on my first trip. I had tickets in hand before I had anything booked or even knew where I wanted to go. I was totally clueless! At least you have some idea of where you want to go

First of all, you don't have very much time. With the first night spent in Nairobi, you only have 8 nights to divide between the rest. Are you sure you want to visit all of those places? It's certainly possible, but will be rushed.

There are a number of recommended East Africa safari outfitters who can put this trip together for you. Many of them will customize a private safari for the two of you, so there's no need to find an operator with a scheduled departure for a certain day (unless you need to share with others for cost reasons). If you do a search, you'll find many names listed but here are a few to get you started as you need to act quickly -

Eastern & Southern Safaris (I've used them)
Southern Cross Safaris
Wildtrek Safaris
Roys Safaris
Good Earth Safaris
Tanzania Serengeti Adventures

The first 3 are based in Kenya and the latter 3 are based in Tanzania. Any one of them can organize safaris in both countries for you.

I think you should consider flying directly from the Mara to Kilimajaro(via Nairobi). Given your limited time, I don't think you should drive back to Nairobi and deal with land transport from Nairobi to Arusha (which would also necessitate an overnight in Arusha). If you fly, you may actually be able to drive straight to Ngorongoro crater that same day.

Hi Maria,

I'm another one of those "buy the air first and sort out the safari later" people, so I can totally relate.

I took the shuttle bus from Nairobi to Arusha, but we had 19 days and you just have 9, so if you can at all afford it, I recommend flying.

With 9 days and wanting to include Zanzibar, I think I'd pick either Kenya or Tanzania for the safari portion simply to save time. If the Crater is a must, then I *think* it makes more sense to visit the Serengeti rather than the Mara. Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

If the Mara is a must, then given your time limitations, I would probably skip the Crater and spend more time enjoying Kenya. It is as easy to fly to Zanzibar from Nairobi as from Arusha/JRO.

By the way, you're trip sounds great; I'm extremely jealous!

I'm not sure why either the Mara or the Serengeti would be a "must" since they are two sections of the same park, the Serengeti being the much larger section, and I would think the choice would depend on where wildlife viewing is better, on based, at least on Mark Nolting's safari book, the Serengeti is better in November.

thit_cho,
re: Mara and Serengeti. Yes, I realize they are part of the same ecosystem, thank you very much. But while the zebras and the wildebeest may cross freely, we tourists may not. So, given limited time and possibly limited resources, a tourist may have to choose.

By the way, I listed the Crater and the Mara as potential "musts," since they--and not the Serengeti--were on the OPs original itinerary.

Hmm, you seem to have raised my ire. I've never even been to the Mara, and would pick the Serengeti regardless of season because I love it. But I know some people feel the same way about the Mara.

As you've outlined what you'd like to do, here's the time needed to get this accomplished:

Day 1 - Arv. NBO - overnight (o/n)
Day 2 - Drive to Lk. Nakuru (3-hrs) - o/n
Day 3 - Drive to Mara (5-6 hrs, there are no flights) - o/n
Day 4 - Mara
Day 5 - Mara
Day 6 - FLY to NBO - drive to Namanga border onto Arusha - o/n
Day 7 - Drive to Crater - o/n
Day 8 - Crater - o/n
Day 9 - Drive to Arusha, FLY to ZNZ - o/n
Day 10 - ZNZ - o/n
Day 11 - afternoon FLY to NBO - homeward flight.

... you've run out of time!

As others mentioned, you're better being in Tanzania - the Serengeti for November as:

Day 1 - Arv. NBO - o/n
Day 2 - Early Shuttle to Arusha, arrive about 12N-1pm, lunch, drive to Crater (5-hrs) - o/n (entire day is traveling if doing by road)
OR
Day 2 - Early FLY to Kili, transfer via Arusha, drive to Crater (5-hrs) you can get in a Crater Rim Walk, but not sufficient time to go down into Crater - o/n
Day 3 - Morning Crater Tour; afternoon (some other activity or leisure - o/n
Day 4 - Drive via Oldupai (brief visit) to Central Serengeti - o/n
Day 5 - Serengeti (Central or North or Northeast) - o/n
Day 6 - Serengeti - o/n
Day 7 - FLY via Arusha to ZNZ - o/n
Day 8 - ZNZ - o/n
Day 9 - afternoon FLY to NBO for homebound flight

Your budget will determine whether road and/or flights and the accommodations you select, whether lodges or permanent tent camps.

Contact a few of the in-country outfitters for pricing of the Tanzania itinerary which will be private for the two of you only. I doubt you'd find a "scheduled" itinerary as you originally listed it. Just not feasible, and as you see "you'd run out of days."

You'll just have to save the Mara, Nakuru (and other great places) in Kenya for another trip, another time.

Leely, I didn't mean to raise your ire :'( , but I wasn't sure if they original poster was aware that the Masai Mara and the Serengeti, while both excellent, and I have been to both, are similar, and during November, if their primary interest is seeing large numbers of animals for a photo safari that the Serengeti may be better. As between the two, I think the scenery in the Serengeti is more spectacular, but I would choose based on where the large herds are at the time of my visit.

thit_cho,

Oh, I was just feeling crabby on a Monday. And trying to figure out how someone can do a safari and Zanzibar in 9 days with arrival and departure through NBO--ack.

Thank goodness Sandi is here to hammer out details.

Also, I think it's a shame that the OP and her husband probably will not have the time to spend a day in Nairobi, where there's certainly enough to do to occupy a day (or two).

Thanks to everybody for all the comments I've been very busy yesterday, so sorry for "slow responding" :
1. We noted the fact about Serengeti vs. Masai Mara. Your comments unfortunately confirm our previous doubts...
2. Special thanks to Sandi for the day by day itineraries (btw, in the second one you've counted 9 days instead of 10 - if you count the day of arrival to Nairobi as the first one we have 10 days, not 9 (see dates from my first post).
3. We still need some info on the flights NeighborhoodOfNgorongoro -Zanzibar-Nairobi, does anyone know websites of any domestic carriers in Tanzania/Kenya ?
I think that with those flights we might make it, but I have to check out the timetables first./Maria

Maria,

Try www.regional.co.tz for your Tanzania internal flights and www.kenya-airways.com and www.precisionairtz.com for your flight from Zanzibar to Nairobi.

On the Kenya Airways site, I think you have to choose Kenya as your country of residence to be able to view the schedule.

IF we decide to stick with the MM version, what do you think about this itinerary ?
11/18 Arrival to Nairobi.
11/19 Depart at 07:30 for MM NR. Afternoon game drive 15:30-18:30.
11/20 A full day game drive at MM.
11/21 A full day game drive at MM.
11/22 Morning game drive 06:30-09:30 and depart through Narok and Mt. Longonot to LN NP. Afternoon game drive 16:00-18:30.
11/23 Morning game drive 06.30-12.30 and depart through the Great Rift Valley to Nairobi straight for the afternoon bus to Arusha.
11/24 Depart to Ngorongoro CA. Afternoon game drive.
11/25 Morning game drive. Depart for Arusha. Evening flight to Zanzibar?
11/26 Sightseeing Stone Town. Enjoying the island.
11/27 Relax on the beaches. Evening flight to Nairobi?
???
The problem is I don't have any info of the flights to and from Zanzibar
/Maria

Maria, this may be outdated info, but when I took the Nairobi-Arusha shuttle, the "late" one departed at 2pm. So I'd be concerned about cutting it too close on 11/23.

Good luck with your plans. I think once you get the details sorted out, you will have a fantastic trip.

Patty - thank you very much for the info on tour operators. I emailed a few of them. For Kenya - Eastern & Southern safaris have a suitable schedule and reasonable prices. For Tanzania - Roy's safaris look interesting, but to pricey for our budget. On most websites that you've recommended I found a lot of info on Zanzibar /Maria

With the itinerary you propose, frankly I would suggest skipping the Crater -- you're traveling a very long way to get there for one day. It is great, but its too far, in my view, to travel for one day.

With such a limited period of time, I would focus on either Kenya OR Tanzania, and if your heart is set on seeing the Masai Mara, I would recommend ending in Lamu or Mombasa if you want some beach time and coastal culture. With your revised itinerary, you'll have very little time in Zanzibar.

You could:

11/18 Arrival to Nairobi.
11/19 Depart at 07:30 for MM NR. Afternoon game drive 15:30-18:30.
11/20 A full day game drive at MM.
11/21 A full day game drive at MM.
11/22 Morning game drive 06:30-09:30 and depart through Narok and Mt. Longonot to LN NP. Afternoon game drive 16:00-18:30.
11/23 Full day LK NP
11/24 Morning game drive 06.30-12.30 and depart through the Great Rift Valley to Nairobi for late flight to Mombassa..
11/25 Mombassa
11/26 Mombassa.
11/27 Flight to Nairobi

This seems much less rushed.

Leely - Thanks for the notice. I went to a bookstore and went over a few guidebooks, the same scaring info is written there about the 2PM shuttle from Nairobi to Arusha IF we go to MM and LN we might be 1 h late to catch that bus. I'll talk to the tour operators if they can cut 1h at LN. /Maria

thit_cho - you're right it's all in a rush, but we'ld really like to see Ngorongoro and visit Zanzibar, i think i'd rather go with Serengeti vs. Masai Mara, what we're considering at the moment...S or MM, first i'll check the flights - btw, Patty ! Big Thanks
/Maria

Maria,
If you leave Lake Nakuru early enough, there should be no reason why you can't make the 2pm shuttle departure. The drive from Nakuru to Nairobi should take 2-3 hours at most.

If you go with Serengeti, instead of MM, you'll be much less rushed and you won't spend as much time on the road.

Check out Sandi's second itinerary. She has two alternative suggestions for Day 2 (depending on whether you drive or fly), so she hasn't added an extra day.

Michael,
Sandi's itinerary is actually too short by one day.

Maria,
If you go with sandi's second itinerary, you could simply add another night in Zanzibar to make it 10 days instead of 9. Or you could add 1 night in Tarangire or Lake Manyara on your way to Ngorongoro crater.

So Day 2 could be fly/shuttle to Arusha and drive to Tarangire/Lake Manyara, Day 3 drive from Tarangire/Lake Manyara to Ngorongoro crater and then continue with the rest of the itinerary.

Just emailed the airlines, as booking tickets one-way on 2 out of 3 websites is a problem... Talk to you all tomorrow, got to run
/Maria
P.S thit-cho
Sandi did miscalculate the # of days in her second proposed itinerary (if we count our arrival in Nairobi as day #1 we have there 10 days, not 9...; count for yourself )

You are correct.

Sounds like some very good advice is being given here and I would like to ask for some help as well. I have a trip scheduled for June 2 to June 15 to Tanzania. We are thinking of spending the last three days in Zanzibar. We would appreciate any thoughts of agenda for this trip and places to stay. We are thinking of a private safari using Roy's. Thanks!

MW123 -
If you're using one of the outfitters that Patty listed in her post above,to arrange your itinerary, accommodations, etc... let them handle your air or land transfers... that's their job. You don't have to do this yourself.

Zekester,
You could start your own thread posting questions you have about your itinerary even if your question is simply "what should my itinerary be?"

Try to give an idea of what your expectations and budget are so people can offer you advice pertinent to you.

Good luck.

Leely

Thanks, I'll try it. After reading your past comments, it really seems you know Tanzania and your help will be appreciated.

Zekester, I burst out laughing when I saw that! I have only been once!! I will be going again next June. You could say I'm hooked.

There about a bazillion realy qualified people on this board who can actually help you with your trip.

Leely - Your comment below:

>>There about a bazillion realy qualified people on this board who can actually help you with your trip.<<

Are these the same bazillion that when George W was advised that 3 Brazillions were murdered, he wanted to know if a brazillion was a large number?

Couldn't help myself. But I got three of those emails the other day... and we're paying this guy a salary!

Enough, lightheartedness for the day!

Hi,

I plan to use Roy's myself for my honeymoon next June. I was wondering if Sandi or Leely might be able to offer some advice. I would appreciate some advice or somewhere to stay for three days after Kirawira camp on about the 23rd June 2006. Not too fused about cost but if there is a watering hole or river very near I guess animals will be close. Manty thanks

chrisamg,
Are you asking for suggestions for a secondary location in addition to Kirawira in the Serengeti or are you looking for suggestions elsewhere? If you tell us what other places you're already planning to stay besides Kirawira that might help others provide suggestions for your additional nights.

Oops, I wasn't being very clever.
We arrive in Arusha 19th June :
19th June Mt Village
20th Ngorongoro Crater Lodge
21st Kirawira
22nd Kirawira
23- 25 ? Not sure where to stay but think it might be best in Western Serengeti
26th Gibbs Farm
27th Mt Village
28th 30th Mnemba

I would appreciate any advice on places to stay and places not to stay.
Many thanks all

Sandi,
Uh oh. When I start sounding like George W I need to hang up my hat. Funny joke, though.

Chris,
If you're at Kirawira for 2 nights you wouldn't necessarily need 2 more nights in the Western Serengeti. Lodging options in/near the Seronera valley include the Serena, the Wildlife Lodge, the Sopa, Ronjo camp (rustic!) and Mbuzi Mawe (pricey but nicey, I think). If your budget allows, you could spend 3 nights Kirawira and 2 nights Mbuzi Mawe. If not, 2 nights Kirawira and 2 or 3 at the Serena or the Sopa would be nice. The Seronera is "crowded" with tourists, but full of resident wildlife, including lots and lots of big cats.

Hi Everybody
I'm stuck with the details of our trip in NGORONGORO... Should we use a tour agency or go there on our own, is the second possible and reasonable? Please advice (distance, time, transport from Arusha, guides, maybe overnight at a camp, all costs)?
/Maria

Maria,
I don't know if the latter is possible. Does anyone know if you can self drive into the crater? In any case, I think by the time you rented a 4WD, camping equipment, etc. it may end up costing you almost as much as a tour. I don't think there is public transport to the crater rim. You may be able to find public transport to the town of Karatu, stay at a lodge there (I think there are some inexpensive ones) and see if the lodge can offer you a day or half day trip to Ngorongoro.

Try posting this question on the Lonely Planet Thorntree board. You'll probably get more suggestions for doing it on your own there (or at least semi-on your own).

You couldn't pay me to drive the ascent road out of the Crater! Granted, I am a bit of a chicken, but I was a nervous wreck coming up out of there.

Let's Go Travel does a la carte short safaris out of Nairobi; they have gotten good marks on Lonely Planet Thorn Tree. I wonder is there is something similar in Tanzania--there must be. Really, most any tour operator could handle a brief jaunt to the Crater for you. I would choose that over the hassle of trying to arrange it myself.

Thx Patty,
I thought it might be almost the same cost, so the fuss is not worth it... Roy's want 390,-USD pp for 2days - I'm looking for sth like that for 200,-USD. Any tips anybody for NGORONGORO CRATER tours?
/Maria

Leely,
I went to the bookstore again and i bought 2 guidebooks - 1 for K, 1 for T (wanted to buy Fodor's K&T all in one, but it was published in 2001, the Lonely Planet ones were 2003 & 2004, so more recent). I'm currently reading the about the northern circuit in T. I'll check up the Lonely Planet forum too. Big THX /Maria

Maria,
Is that price for 1 night or 2 nights at the crater? Also is it for a lodge or camping? If that's the price for a lodge (which lodge by the way?), ask them for a price for basic camping.

I believe Roys only books (or primarily books) private tours. You could try contacting other operators to see if they already have clients booked on your dates who would be willing to share. Being able to split the cost between 4 or 6 would definitely bring the pp rate down versus just 2. However, I don't know how likely it is that you'll find others who are only interested in doing 1 or 2 nights at Ngorongoro.

Try Sunny Safaris in Arusha. I see them mentioned on the LP board quite a bit. You could also try posting a question on the LP board asking if anyone wants to go to Ngorongoro on the same dates and is interested in sharing. I see people posting such questions on that board all the time. It's worth a try.

I too have seen Sunny Safaris mentioned on the Thorn Tree; I believe they are also in the Bradt Guide to Tanzania (Maria, this is a great guide book, but since you already have bought 2, you might try to see if it's available at your local library).

By the way, where are thinking of staying on Zanzibar?

Maria,
Another thought, if you decide not to have one company handle both Kenya and Tanzania: have you looked at the list of operators on http://www.tatotz.org/ ? That is the Tanzanian Associaion of Tour Operators. African Trails Ltd., for example, lists short itineraries and prices. I think you could find something there that will work for you.

Caveat: I have never used African Trails!

Maria,
Do your plans still include both Kenya and Tanzania? You might want to have the tour operators you're contacting, price the whole itinerary, rather than parceling it out in bits and pieces and see what they come up with.

Patty,
the offer from Roy's is for budget camping (Simba Campsite) for 1 night, that's why I think 390,-USD pp is definitely too much
Patty and Leely,
I just contacted Sunny Safaris, they are in my LP guidebook
Leely,
BIG THX for the link to TATO, it's always worth checking if the operators are a member, did the same for the Kenyan part at KATO's website
/Maria

Leely,
no details for Zanzibar so far, any tips on accomodation ?
/Maria

Maria,
There is no shortage of accommodations for all budgets all over Zanzibar. It really depends what you're looking for.

For an opinionated overview of select properties, see:

http://www.africatravelresource.com/africa/E/zanzibar/Z01.asp

Also see zanzibartourism.net.

But get your safari nailed down first; that's the hard part. And good luck--I think you'll really enjoy your trip!

Maria,
That's a pretty steep price for 1 night of budget camping. I wonder if they just didn't want to mess with such a short booking so quoted you a really high price.

I would have whichever tour operator you're using for the Kenya portion quote you a price for Tanzania as well (or vice versa). It may not make that much of a difference cost wise versus booking with 2 separate operators and simplifies things for you. Most tour operators will want a deposit upon booking unless you can talk them into accepting payment on arrival.

If we decide to go to Masai Mara I think we'll go with Kenia Tours, asked them for help with flights and Ngorongoro; I also emailed Sunny Safaris, Simba Safaris and Safari Makers for quotes on a 2d1n safari to the NCA, awaiting for the replies and reading about Zanzibar /Maria

I'm wondering about Serengeti vs. Masai Mara - in October animals migrate to S, I get that, but what will the view be in MM at the end of November - no animals or what ? /Maria

Long time no... report Sorry - I was simply busy, but here it goes :
11/18 Nairobi We didn't like the city, but we expected it to be this way, so we only dined at Carnivore Restaurant (very nice place and the ostrich meat was superb, crocodile very good, only the camel was awful - very dry) and overnight at the Norfolk Hotel.
11/19-21 Masai Mara NR
Early morning drive through the Rift Valley to Masai Mara with Kania Tours. 3 nights at their camp = nice, spacious tents, but terrible facilities... never again. Big plus was we had a very good cook and a very clever driver (showed us all the animals and on top of it we saw a leopard 3x and a black rhino). Gameviewing : 19. afternoon and evening, 20. morning and evening, 21. morning through afternoon.
11/22-23 Lake Nakuru NP
Drive up to Lake Nakuru also with Kania Tours. This time we overnight 2 nights at a charming colonial guesthouse. Evening and morning gamedrive. In Nairobi they dropped us of directly for our shuttle to Arusha. We arrived in Tanzania around 7 PM and overnight at a very clean Lutheran hostel.
11/24-25 Ngoro-Ngoro CA
We went on a 2 day safari with African Trails to the Ngoro-Ngoro crater and Lake Manyara. Spectacular views. Overnight again at a different Lutheran hostel (also very clean and the portions of all meals were huge). After gameviewing on the second day the driver drooped us of at the Kilimanjaro airport where from we took a flight directly to Zanzibar, where we stayed for 2 nights at Matemwe Baharini Villas.
11/26-27
I strongly recommend http://matemwevillas.com/index.html . Practically it was a 100 yards from our bungalow to the crystal clear water. We relaxed for 2 days in our little paradise, then drove to the airport (on the way visiting Stone Town - lovely buildings, but terribly covered with mold) and flew back to Nairobi for our flight back to London.
Reassuming it was a great trip - very interesting animals, spectacular views and the palmy beach on the clear waters of the Indian Ocean
10 days there and the costs PP = 50(hotel in Nairobi)+355(KeniaTours)+15(shuttle bus)+455(AfricanTours)+400(domestic airfare)+100(Zanzibar:MBV+transport)+maybe125(extras&gifts)=1500,-USD + of course airfare NYC-NBO. You can see my pictures on http://www.mariawitas.com/Kenya.html and http://www.mariawitas.com/Tanzania.html

Maria
in Mara - wasn't it raining cats & dogs ? (leopards & bat-eared foxes 4u)
if so how were the roads at Mara (u hada 2WD probably) ?
were was your campsite?
Can we have any info on these Lutheran hostels (location,costs)?
& did i understand correctly the cost is for 2 persons in a car (or u joined a group)??
aby

Hey, MW123, I'm so glad I noticed this. Thanks for checking back in with your report. Sounds like a wonderful time and interesting to hear firsthand about matemwe villas. Was it terribly hot, or did the breezes keep you comfortable?

I'm off to look at your photos instead of cleaning my bathroom. My shower blames you.

Aby - the whole time we were in Africa it was raining only one day (NgoroNgoro Crater) and not the whole day just maybe 3 short little showers 15 minutes each, otherwise it was very sunny, esp. in Masai Mara, so the roads were very dry there
our campsite was located not even a mile from the main gates to the reserve, but I don't recommend it, the facilities were terrible, on this continent it's really better to stay in guesthouses or lodges
the costs were Per Person (PP) and it was only the 2 of us in the car during all the safaris
as for the hostels, sorry didn't note the info, both overnights were arranged for us by African Trails Ltd from Arusha and included in the price, I strongly recommend their service (ask for Ms. Hellen, she really cares for her customers)

Hi Leely

I posted only 2x16 pics on my website, so I guess your bathroom wasn't mad at you for not grooming it for more than 115 min
sorry it took me so long to post the report, I'm pretty busy lately
as for Zanzibar it was awfully hot, after spending maybe 3 hours at the beach we had to get back in the shade for a while, otherwise we would loose our skin so the morning and evening breezes were refreshing /Maria