Itinerary suggestions-Tanzania and Kenya late May early June 2010

No one can know whether the migrating herds will have reached the Western corridor where private reserve Grumeti/Singita is located. Some years they are, others they're still in Central Serengeti; others they can be in both.

There will be game regardless where, but no guarantee for the migration. The benefit of being in the Serengeti itself - Western or Central, if the herds are in one or the other, it's an easy 2/hr game drive between the two and no need for additional park fees. Being on the private Grumeti/Singita Reserve... not likely they'll take you into the Serengeti.

If you'd prefer to be in the Serengeti itself, then consider the andBeyond Serengeti Under Canvas Camp; also expensive, but a tad less than Sasakwa for sure; Sabora would offer a comparable rate to SUC. Camp is beautiful, food excellent.

Maybe consider 2/nts Grumeti/Singita (certainly is lux and be pampered); 2/nts andBeyond SUC; then onto Ngorongoro; and the 2/nts at Bateleur. You've added the extra nt to the SUC camp, taking 1/nt from G/S.

Assume you're staying at Crater Lodge at Ngorongoro, where you don't necessarily have to spend 2/nts. Though having the 2nd, does give you a bit of "chill" time. If you'd prefer only 1/nt here, you can add that nt to Bateleur in the Mara.

Since you're flying between, this is doable. Then off to SEZ.

Day 1 - Arv. JRO
Day 2 - Fly to Grumeti/Singita - o/n Sasakwa or Sabora
Day 3 - S/G
Day 4 - Transfer to Serengeti - o/n andBeyond SUC
Day 5 - SUC
Day 6 - Transfer to Ngorongoro; afternoon crater tour - Crater Ldg?
Day 7 - Ngorongoro ???
Day 8 - Fly via Arusha to Nairobi to Masai Mara - Bateleur (arriving mid-afternoon/4pm)
Day 9 - Bateleur
Day 10 - Fly to NBO onto SEZ

That's it with the changes suggested.

Thank you very much for the reply. What I've been told is that it's necessary to overnight in Nairobi to get to SEZ. As a result, on the 9th day I need to fly there. The information I was given about the crater is that due to traffic congestion, it's best to avoid afternoon crater drives if you can. Also, as it's our honeymoon, I've heard that the Crater Lodge is a wonderful place to stay. Finally, it's our first time to Tanzania so I'd like some time to take it all in...and the crater looks so beautiful, game drives aside.

One thing I was thinking, and not that two days matters, but if I stick to my original itinerary, maybe we should go first to the Crater, then 2 or 3 days Singita, then 2 or 3 days Bateleur rather than heading to Singita first. I'm not sure if logistically that makes more sense.

Any comments about Bateleur in early June? Should the game still be relatively amazing?

Hi hoffman
Here are comes my 1 cent

First of all I would advise you to not stay less than 3 nights in one location - except for the crater lodge which is the most stunning venue you can choose in that part of TAZ and it compliments wonderfully the occasion: HONEYMOON! BTW: CONGRATS to your decision to start an completely new life on 4 legs
Crater lodge for 2 nights is excellent. Not just for the crater itself but also in order to fully enjoy the venue!

Singita Grumeti: Here it's hard to choose between Sasakwa, which is a lodge, and SABORA tented. Both are wonderful. But tented is much more close to nature feeling wise.
Both offer top notch service and the experience is outstanding.

Bateleur is a nice camp but due to the saison you are travelling in it won't have the wildebeast/zebra migration there.

So I have asked myself what would me make consider Massai Mara for 2 nights? What do I expect there which I haven't most probably experienced in TAZ. What asks for the effort to include the Massai Mara for such a brief visit?

Frankly - NOTHING would make me shorten my visit to either Kenya or TAZ just in order to cover both countries.

Of course the MM has got it all in one relatively small area: all big cats for certain plus some Elis and other plains game.

Is it "necessary" that you do both: Kenya and Tanzania?

If I were in your shoes I would do the following:

Fly into NBO (guess that's a must in order to get smoothly over to Mahé; I am not familiar with the air connections between EA and Seychelles. Maybe there is also an opportunity to fly from either JRO or DAR?) and stay there for one night at either House of Waine, Ngong House or Giraffe Manor - if you cannot fly into JRO or DAR.
Based on your flight into NBO: Next day fly out to JRO and proceed to the Serengeti and Crater. Fly out to the Seychelles.

I would rather included Tarangire in TAZ instead of the Massai Mara.

Kenya would be an option for a second trip to Africa.


Sorry if my input causes you some thoughts or re-evaluation.

SV

PS
I am going to visit Grumeti in Feb 2010.

oops - hoffman I forgot:
Singita Grumeti has got a special for 2010: stay 6 nights and pay for 5

SV

Gosh - forgot one more thing: If travelling between Kenya and TAZ you need to have the Yellow Fever inoculation.

But that should not have an impact onto your decision on whether to do both countries or not.

SV

One part of my trip is already fixed, and that's the flight into JRO on May 28th. We got a relatively good deal on business class coming from New York. Heading home from the Seychelles is going to be on a separate one-way ticket through London, most likely. One option that someone proposed was 2 nights Lake Manyara treetops, 1 night crater lodge, and 4 nights Grumeti then on to NBO and then SEZ. The person I've been dealing with the most though is really pushing the Masai Mara and the visit to Kenya, albeit a brief visit. According to her the large concentration of game in the MM is the primary reason to make the trip. There is no reason that it's a necessity, it was just someone elses recommendation based on their travels and knowledge of the area. I'm definitely torn. One thing I'm having her check is if it's possible to take flights from Bateleur Sunday morning in time to make it to NBO to catch a flight to SEZ all in the same day. Then I could do 3 nights Grumeti, 2 nights crater lodge, and 3 nights Bateleur. If it's even possible, it may require a charter flight from the MM to NBO but if its somewhat reasonable I'd do it as it gives us a whole extra full day of game drives.

"Then I could do 3 nights Grumeti, 2 nights crater lodge, and 3 nights Bateleur. If it's even possible, it may require a charter flight from the MM to NBO but if its somewhat reasonable I'd do it as it gives us a whole extra full day of game drives."

PERFECT!
SORRY: I didn't "store" you were flying into JRO.

3 nights is different and certainly worth the effort!
A charter from MM to NBO is approx. 900US$ for the aircraft/pilot compared to approx. 270US$ for both of you on the morning flight on Safari Link or Air Kenya. I would go for Safari Link instead Air Kenya. Much more personal service and nicer aircraft.
Safari Link leaves the MM at 11.00hrs (approx!) and reaches Wilson/Nairobi around 12.25hrs. Air Kenya similar.
Depending on departure time for SEZ: Charter would be a very nice option - very stylish for that kind of trip

I am sure you TA will sort that out as charters start flying after sunrise. You should request the pilot to arrive the night prior to your departure - pilot accommodation at Kichwa Tembo is no problem.
That means you should be able to reach Nairobi Wilson by 08.30hrs at the latest, taxi ride over to NBO which might take one hour.

Another idea: What about heli transfer between Wilson airport and NBO?

So go for it!

Happy travels!

SV

What time does the flight depart NBO/JKIA (intl airport) to SEZ? Would help!

As 16th Dec, the Air Kenya flight will be departing the Mara earlier - now 10:15am arriving Wilson/NBO about 1/hr later; rather than the SafariLink at 11am (arriving about 12-12:30pm. Unlike SV who feels SL is better, I find both SL and AK much the same for this 1/hr flight... take off and land! It's not like you have to concern yourself with food service, entertainment and flight crews.

A Charter would be expensive, but I don't believe as high as SV indicates. Whichever, you still have to keep Charter vs Scheduled in mind depending on when you depart from NBO/JKIA to SEZ.

You'll need the Yellow Fever inoc for transfers/entry between Tanzania/Kenya and also for entry into the Seychelles.

While I did indicate 2/nt stays if splitting time with G/S and the Serengeti, as well as 2/nts Bateleur, I too prefer 3/nts. whenever possible. So consider either 3/nts S/G OR 3/nts andBeyong SUC, 2/nts Ngorongoro and then into Kenya for 3/nts Bateleur.

If after you figure out where/when you have to be to make the flight to SEZ, if you have 1/nt left, you can spend it in Nairobi. There are a number of lovely properties here - House of Waine or Ngong House - to refresh before flight next day (even sightseeing in NBO) to SEZ. This would also eliminate need for a Charter, if it's an early departure from JKIA/SEZ.

Assuming the KQ nonstop, the flight to SEZ departs NBO at 9:00am. What's the earliest time you can depart from a Mara airstrip? The flight time is about 50 min from the Mara to Nairobi so I think it would be cutting it pretty close. You'd have to charter directly into NBO. No way you'd make it if the charter goes to Wilson.

Mornings at NBO are busy with departures. If you can check-in online, print your boarding passes and have carry on only, you can by pass the check-in desk saving you some time. Everyone has to go through xray/security prior to entering the airport terminal and there will be queues at that time of day.

Patty is correct. The Kenya Air flight to SEZ departs at 9:00am. That brings me back to my original problem of having to choose between skipping Kenya all together, or spending 2 nights Grumeti and 3 Bateleur or vice versa. Although, maybe we could charter a flight for a very late departure Saturday night from Bateleur to still keep the option of having 2 full days of game drives from Bateleur but just not stay there at night. If it's roughly $900 US for a charter, but that allows me an additional full day of game driving versus none at all, and allows me to spend 3 nights at Grumeti...sounds worth it to me.

Knew Patty would know flight departure time. Asante!

A Charter from the Mara could go to either airstrip. In this case, JKIA.

Why it might be a better idea to spend the night prior in NBO. Then as others do for early flights, transfer from hotel about 6am (traffic, but not all that terrible) and be at JKIA in time for flight to SEZ.

On the day prior, you can depart the Mara on the AK or SL morning flight and have afternoon and overnight in NBO. Or take the afternoon flight out of the Mara for overnight in NBO.

The afternoon scheduled Mara-Nairobi flight departs at 4:00pm. Flying is done in daylight so a charter wouldn't buy you much additional time, 2 hours maybe, probably not even that. I would just take the scheduled flight as I don't think it's worth chartering in this case. I don't know if Bateleur has a set game drive schedule or if it's tailored individually, but you'd still be able to get in some game drive time on your departure day.

I got sidetracked with flight logistics and forgot to add that personally I'd skip the Mara and stay in Tanzania given your limited time. It's a lot of travel time and seems rushed to me. Just stay one night in Nairobi prior to your flight to SEZ.

Would it be possible to travel from the Singita/Grumeti area to the &beyond Serengeti Under Canvas camps?

What about
May 28-arrive
May 29-travel to Sabora camp
May 30 full day Sabora
May 31 full day Sabora
June 1 travel to SUC
June 2 full day SUC
June 3 travel to Ngorngoro
June 4 full day at crater
June 5 travel to Nairobi
June 6 off to SEZ

I guess another option would be just to travel directly to SUC or Grumeti and stay for 5 nights then go to the crater. Although I think I'd like to mix it up a bit more than that.

If I go to Kenya it's

May 28 arrive
29-travel to Singita
30 full day
31 full day
1-travel to crater
2-full day at crater
3- travel to Bateleur
4 -full day Bateleur
5 -1/2 day Bateleur then travel NBO
6- off to SEZ

Including Bateleur doesn't seem so crazy to me when I look at it this way. But clearly most people here don't think the hassle of traveling to the Masai Mara is worth it.

I love the Masai Mara but I have to agree with the others that I would give it a miss and avoid all the hassle of moving out of Tanzania just to spend a few days there. Two locations in the Serengeti plus Ngorongoro would be a wonderful honeymoon without the stress of lots of transfers and trying to catch flights.

BTW, as mentioned you can't fly out of the Mara after dark so you wouldn't get the late afternoon game drive in.

I guess that leaves me with my other question. Is it possible to travel between Serengeti Under Canvas and the Singita camps in a reasonable enough amount of time that I should make those two places my two Serengeti destinations? If I use SUC, should I go there first, then Sabora? Or should I start at Sabora, then go SUC, then the crater?

Either is good, you just have to decide whether you "must" include the Mara.

You probably feel "well, we're here, so why not?" Or if like most visitors, will be so enthralled with the experience (if in only Tanzania), make plans to return. If so, you can then plan for Kenya.

With either and since you have to be in NBO to make the early flight to SEZ, once you arrive NBO from Tanzania, it's only a 45/min-1/hr flight to the Mara. If you decide to include this, and on last day taking the afternoon flight (4pm) to NBO, you'll have a short(er) game drive on way to the airstrip... then up-an-away.

There are always many routing combinations, so it's your decision. Neither of the above will disappoint.

If it's a road transfer between Sabora and SUC, would be a game drive, about 2-3/hrs. If a flight, maybe 30/min. Both properties will pamper you.

However, for end May and as there is no assurance where the migration will be, I'd stay in the Serengeti itself (SUC) where game drives can easily be done between Central and Western.

If you choose to split your time between the two locations, I'd start farthest out - Sabora- then to SUC, Ngorongoro and onto Kenya.

Why Grumeti in May? Of course you cannot predict where the migration will be when year to year, week to week day to day (!), but have you had a look at the Africa Dream Safaris migration map? I personally would not go west late May/early June.

The link is on the bottom of the list on the right:
http://www.africadreamsafaris.com/dest_serengeti.html

Well, if the heard were to move one week earlier than that map suggests it could be a pretty good time (somewhat wishful thinking, I know). With Grumeti and then SUC I think I should be well covered.

Any map is certainly +/- one week for accuracy of predictions. Not at all like a train schedule.

You also can drive some distance to locate the herds if they are not on your doorstep. Taking your breakfast and/or lunch in a box makes that approach a possibility. A private vehicle also helps so you don't have to convince your vehicle-mates to give up the cuisine in camp. However, the upscale camps like you mention (I still cannot believe SUC) will do their best to accommodate the game viewing wishes of the guests and mix and match you with like minded vehicle-mates.

You cannot predict the movement of the animals or the weather, but you can control what company you choose & where you stay, who is in the vehicle (if you go private), and what you'll do on a daily outing (if you go private or if you let the management know upon arrival what your wishes are).

Congrats on your upcoming marriage.

So it's been decided (unless there are booking problems).

First, three nights at Serengeti Under Canvas.
Then two nights at Sabora.
Then two nights at Ngorongoro Crater Lodge.
Overnight in Nairobi.
A week in the Seychelles.

Thanks so much to everyone here for all your help. Now the hard part....waiting 7 months for the trip!

WONDERFUL itinerary!

Now you have a good reason to come back: Migration in The Massai Mara next time!

Maybe your TO should try to get House of Waine in Nairobi
http://www.houseofwaine.co.ke/
Even if it's only a stop over: It should be STYLISH

Happy travels! And all the best for the wedding!

SV

I think she's been recommending the Norfolk in Nairobi. Any comparison between the two? I haven't done a lot of research on this front as I've been much more focused on Tanzania.

I loved the Norfolk - so full of history & comfortable - and good food. I haven't stayed at the HOW yet, but I am sure that either would be nice for you! From the website it looks absolutely lovely!

One thing to consider is the distance to Jomo Kenyatta in the morning from each & how early you have to get out of the wonderful luxurious beds that each has, as you have to be at the airport at 7AM.

Which is the other thing I am writing about - I've known three sets of people (separate trips) that were going Kenya Airways from NBO to the Seychelles & two sets were bumped off the flight. Seems to happen a lot, which is a shame for an every few day flight. Please make sure to confirm your reservations the day before - not that that helped either of the people I knew, but it's worth a shot.

I would highly recommend the House of Waine. Small, stylish boutique hotel with wonderful ambience. Whether you would appreciate it fully for such a short time I don't know, but I wouldn't go into Nairobi in a blue fit if I didn't have to (apart from tourist activities).

I've known three sets of people (separate trips) that were going Kenya Airways from NBO to the Seychelles & two sets were bumped off the flight.

I remember that happening to cybor. Who was the other bumpee? Am I the only non-bumpee? I did reconfirm both directions. I always reconfirm or check-in online with KQ.

Congrats to the OP! Where in the Seychelles are you going?

Though House of Waine is often my "home away from home", another lovely option is Ngong House, lovely property, tree-houses, their chef is a genius!

Regardless, whether at the Norfolk, HOW or Ngong, it will be an early wake-up and out to get to JKIA for SEZ flight! It is what it is at 6am!

Looks good!

We'll be staying at the Four Seasons. They were running a deal that made it too good to turn down.

Thanks for the comment on people getting bumped. I'll try and take whatever precautions that I can.

Patty, you were indeed the 'unbumped' set of travelers to the Seychelles I was referring to. Cybor, as you mentioned was the first bumpee (oh, I like that word! ). The other people were two people from the group that we were with on our 2006 safari. We were flying to Z'bar after the safari on a 10 AM flight, while they were flying for 3 days to the Seychelles, so we were at the airport together that morning. They got on in the end, but not without much yelling, screaming, threatening, etc. They only had three days in the Seychelles, and KQ wanted to re-route them through Jo'berg, and overnight them there. They were at one of the most expensive hotels there, it was a small luxury hotel of the world, prepaid of course & had NO intention of giving up a night so that someone else could go instead. Daniel HAD reconfirmed their flights the day before as I had warned them about what happened to Cybor when I heard they were going to the Seychelles. But, I guess confirmations don't count, it's all in who shows up first at the airport that morning. Anyhow, Micato fixed it all up for the couple, they sent their airside rep over to 'talk' to KQ, and they - along with two other couples who had been bumped - all ended up getting on the flight.