atravelynn

This is not a barbeque recipe such as those frequently found posted in the lounge.

These are questions for Predator about his upcoming Feb Tanzania itinerary, which appears at the end, copied from an earlier post. Anyone else’s input is also appreciated.

1. If your whole trip were one week earlier, would that have changed any of your accommodation choices?

2. Why did you choose Kirurumu in Manyara?

3. Some itineraries have Oldupai in them at this time of year but yours does not. Why did you choose not to include it?

4. If time and budget permitted, do you think 8 nights in the Serengeti in a couple of Southern locations is too much in Feb? For example, do the tse tses just become too tedious after a while?

5. You did not include any time at Ndutu Lodge. Could you explain why?

6. Did you keep tabs on the recent wildebeest rut before finalizing this trip? Is it possible to tell when the majority of millions of wildebeest are mating (I’d think this would be hard to miss) and then count forward the gestation period to see approximately when the babies will be born? I know this won’t tell you were the bulk of the herds will be, but wouldn’t it give a clue on the timing of the births? Or am I futilely thinking it is possible to micromanage the Serengeti when such projections are preposterous?

7. Why Greystoke and not one of the other lodging options?

None of these questions are meant to be challenges to or criticisms of your itinerary when I ask why didn’t you do this or that. I am just trying to understand the thought process necessary to narrow down the many Tanzania and Serengeti options at this time of year.

Thanks.

17-Feb-08 Arusha Hotel or Kibo Palace

18-Feb-08 Fly out at 8 a.m. to Mahale –Overnight Greystoke Camp.

19-Feb-08 Greystoke Camp.

20-Feb-08 Greystoke Camp

21-Feb-08 Fly from Greystoke to Lake Manyara, overnight at Kirurumu Tented Camp

22-Feb-08 Lake Manyara in a.m. and Ngorongoro Crater in p.m. overnight Ngorongoro Sopa Lodge

23-Feb-08 Morning drive in Ngorongoro Crater. Afternoon drive/overnight Suyan Camp.

24-Feb-08 Suyan Camp.

25-Feb-08 Olakira Camp.

26-Feb-08 Olakira Camp.

27-Feb-08 Olakira Camp.

28-Feb-08 Olakira Camp.

PredatorBiologist

Lynn, I'm typing in the answers right below each question.

1. If your whole trip were one week earlier, would that have changed any of your accommodation choices?

Accommodation would be the same a week earlier. The obvious focus is to see the migration and hopefully be lucky enough to catch it during the irruptive birthing period which could very well be occurring the week prior to our trip.

2. Why did you choose Kirurumu in Manyara?

We chose Kirurumu because we wanted to minimize time in the large hotel style operations such as the (L. Manyara Hotel and Serena). L. Manyara Tree Lodge appears to be wonderful but costs almost 3 times as much as Kirurumu and our group wanted to focus their budget on the wildlife experience but we were not worried about over the top luxury.

3. Some itineraries have Oldupai in them at this time of year but yours does not. Why did you choose not to include it?

We will likely stop at the Oldupai Gorge museum for a quick tour as it lies close to the route between the Crater and Suyan Camp. I've read a lot of reports where people are not very impressed with this stop and even the best reviews seem to simply say its "interesting for a view" thus I'm not too worried about it. We will stop for the educational aspect but if we are held up by some great sightings etc. I will not hesitate to skip it as we want all our drive opportunities at Suyan to hopefully observe wild dogs so I don't want to be late arriving there.

4. If time and budget permitted, do you think 8 nights in the Serengeti in a couple of Southern locations is too much in Feb? For example, do the tse tses just become too tedious after a while?

Hopefully someone else will chime in as this will be my first time in the Serengeti but I do not think I would hesitate to stay 8 nights in the southern area if I had the time and budget. There is no doubt that is where the action should be in February and based on your viewing interests (and mine) I would think there is plenty to see and everyday will be different so why not stay on if you can.

5. You did not include any time at Ndutu Lodge. Could you explain why?

Olakira Camp will be located somewhere relatively close to Ndutu Lodge and thus we will be traversing the same area of the NCA and the southern portion of the National Park. Our dream way of visiting the Serengeti is to experience it intimately under canvas so we prefer the 5 tent camp to the large lodge style accommodation. If staying for more than 4 days, like the above mentioned 8 it might be nice to try both styles of accommodation but tents are just more my preference.

6. Did you keep tabs on the recent wildebeest rut before finalizing this trip? Is it possible to tell when the majority of millions of wildebeest are mating (I’d think this would be hard to miss) and then count forward the gestation period to see approximately when the babies will be born? I know this won’t tell you were the bulk of the herds will be, but wouldn’t it give a clue on the timing of the births? Or am I futilely thinking it is possible to micromanage the Serengeti when such projections are preposterous?

That's a good thought and I believe the rut will occur sometime in June and gestation is supposed to be 8 to 8.5 months, but considering a two week variance on the rut and gestation you still get a farily wide window, percentages would suggest late January to late February but of course the birthing came in early March this year. My guess is the herd can delay birthing for some short period for the correct conditions. Some people believe that the birthing is somehow tied to the full moon (not sure why) but interestingly this year the full moon was Feb. 2nd and then again on March 3rd, a couple of days after which the birthing irrupted. For 2008 the full moon will be February 21 with us arriving in the Serengeti system on Feb. 24th, so I rolled dice with that as my best guess to time things right --I have no idea if that will get us there at the perfect time but we will enjoy the migration with or without the calves knowing we tried our best.

7. Why Greystoke and not one of the other lodging options?

I basically chose between Nkungwe Tented Camp and Greystoke. While my group didn't need over the top luxury they didn't want the very basic accommodation either so I didn't consider the park type budget camps and can't comment on them. I really wanted a nice standard of accommodation here since we would have down time during the days to enjoy the lake and our surrounds. The pricing I got for Nkungwe was not significantly better than Greystoke and Greystoke offers such a unique lodging experience that we decided to ante up a little extra here. The flights to get to Mahale and back were already a budget killer and Greystoke gets such incredible reviews we decided to emphasize this area with a stay at the more luxurious option.

Hope that helps, don't hesitate to ask more questions.

hguy47

This is really more of a question for people that are more knowledgeable and experienced than I, since I have only been to Tanzania one time, earlier this year.

Re Lynn's question #5 and Predator's response to it, when we were at Olakira in late February, two relevant matters were mentioned.

First, the manager told us that Asilia prefers fairly isolated locations for its camps, and since the Ndutu area in February has become so popular with so many mobile camps that they may opt to put Olakira in a different location next February. Predator, have they told you for sure that Olakira will be in the Ndutu area in early 2008? Frankly, isolation is great, but being (hopefully) in the middle of the migration as we were this year can't be beat, so I would guess that they will have Olakira in the Ndutu area again.

Second, when we stayed there in late February of this year Olakira was indeed quite close to Ndutu Lodge, as were at least two other mobile camps we saw. Olakira was also located inside the Ngorongoro Conservation Area (as Ndutu Lodge of course always is), quite close to but not inside the Serengeti NP. However, our guide told us that we could not traverse back and forth between the NCA to the SNP, but perhaps he meant we could not do so without paying the daily fees for each of them if we were to do so. I think, but am not sure, that in past February's Olakira has sometimes been in the NCA, sometimes in the SNP, and sometimes has been in both locations at some point in the same season. Its precise location from time to time depends on which campsite or sites Asilia is able to reserve and for how long, and since they can (amazingly to me) move the 6-tented camp in just a couple of days they may be in several sites in one season. Obviously one can never predict when the mass migration might be in the NCA or when it might be in the SNP, but the answer to that issue can be very important to one's game viewing opportunities (assuming my original premise is correct).

Can any of the experienced hands shed more knowledgeable light on the issue of traversing between the NCA and the SNP?

climbhighsleeplow

Please don't be concerned about Olakira locations!

To understand the situation, refer to my map here:

http://www.go-safari.com/images/NdutuMarch2007JPG.jpg

As shown, there are several special camp sites in addition to a few not shown (CCAfrica Under Canvas were allocated a few temporary sites).

During the hight of the migration, all sites are occupied and it becomes hard to secure a site - camping outfitters are always looking for new areas and Olakira is doing the same. Especially if they can get far away from the touristy Ndutu Lodge traffic.

I am aware of possible new locations and these are all in the greater Ndutu area. Some to the east and others to the north east - beautiful areas!

On my map you can see the line between the NCA and the Serengeti. If you cross the line you must pay the park fees!

Budget outfitters restrict movement between the NCA and the Serengeti at Ndutu. For example, while staying at Ndutu Lodge your driver/guide will come up with many excuses to avoid paying the extra $50 per day for the Serengeti (the most dodgy companies will sneak into the Serengeti without paying - a cause of great concern to the authorities)!

On a cheap safari you may find yourself going on game drives away from the most wildlife! The fees can be paid at the ranger station on my map. This is one reason why some companies are more expensive than others. Some companies will charge you and refund you if you did not cross into the other area.

When going to camps/lodges at Ndutu, always ask this question to your outfitter - "have we paid for access to all areas during our stay?"

hguy47

Eben, thanks for the clarification re traversing between areas. As is so often the case, it sounds like it is just a question of money.

PredatorBiologist

hguy: you brought up a good point about the changing locations and the issue of going back and forth between the NCA and the Serengeti. Eben has clarified it but I would add this was the difficulty for me to plan a East Africa safari. I have always gone to Southern Africa because its easy for me to find what I want -- small intimate lodging in great wildlife locations. East Africa is more challenging to find an intimate camp that will be located in the right place at the right time and beyond that you have to worry about more than the camps because typically on a circuit safari your 'operator' will be providing the guiding and vehicles as opposed to being provided by the lodging as in southern Africa.

On my previous trips I have always felt comfortable picking my camps and itineraries with little to no help from an agent. For Tanzania I felt I needed an expert to provide the specific knowledge which is why I picked Kiliwarriors. The fact that Eben and his Maasai partner make frequent visits to all the locations and have the camp managers on speed dial helped me find camps that I can feel confident about for location. Also, the easily missed details such as the NCA/Serengeti entry issue was brought to my attention and thus for my group we priced in the daily fees for both areas to ensure that we can go where the sightings are without concern or delay. For 4 days this is an extra $200 pp total -- on the scope of things very little extra to maximize our flexibility and Killiwarriors will refund any daily fees we don't use. I feel like by planning carefully with Eben's expertise and quality of operation that we have crafted a trip that will have a similar to Southern Africa feel to it (including some time in open vehicles and night drives) while taking in the unique strengths of Tanzania.

atravelynn

Thank you all for such detailed and informative answers.

HariS

PB,

I pulled this thread up as i am researching potential trips for later years...

Thanks to Lynn...she always asks very relavant questions!

I have a couple questions....

1.) You say Suyan is on your list primarily for wild dogs? Would it be a good area for gameviewing in general? or that you picked this because it's the main territory of the dog pack?

2.)If Serengeti/Ndutu was your prime focus for Feb/March of any particular year.....how would you rate an exclusive stay at Olaikira for say a week or 10 days? what would be my other options? I also assume that the semi permanent camps may or maynot be at a certain location from year to year?

Another question.....if everyone visiting the Serengeti is at Ndutu (thereabouts) this time of the year, that would make central serengeti quiet in terms of people, though.....the resident animals (including the abundant predators) are always around?

Thanks
Hari

PredatorBiologist

Hari:

1) No doubt Suyan is on my itinerary primarily because of the wild dogs! As for other game I really just have reports form Nikao and Eben. Nikao in a two night stay in late January had incredible dog sightings, cheetah (need I go further), hyena, bat eared foxes, zebra, wildebeest, and gazelles. Eben in early March had the migration right there with the dogs so it seems the game is at least fair to very good if you are lucky. I also chose Suyan though because it is remote and exclusive due to placement in a Maasai private concession, so you will not likely see any other vehicles here and I badly wanted that experience. With luck it will be wild dogs hunting in open terrain where you have a great chance to actually see the kill and no one else is there! Because it is outside of the park you can also do walks and night drives which I really wanted and if that isn't enough it's a very good low touristed area to have Maasai interaction. Our other option was to walk and interact with Maasai near the Crater where lots of people do those activites so this is a great fit for the middle of our northern circuit to get out and do some different things.

2) Since its going to be my first time in the Serengeti I probably cannot give a good recommendation on days at Olakira. I do know the locations are very important and that is one of the reasons I picked that camp as they have a very good reputation for being in the right place and the right time while others frequently set up for a pretty or convenient spot rather than do the extras work to locate for the herds. This should be the hot spot for the action at that time of year so I would think you would be fine with a long stay there especially knowing your preference to settle in and know an area. Others with more experience in this area would be better judges though.

Again, for your final question I could be off base on the area but I believe that the Central Serengeti is almost always thick with people because 1) the larger lodges like the Serena are in that area and 2) there are a lot of larger group trips and poor travel agenting that just send people to the same places regardless of the wildlife movements. On top of that because the area is always great for wildlife lots of people may who do know what they are doing may choose to do a couple nights there in combination with a stay in the Ndutu region. Lastly, even with all the mobiles moving to the southern areas and the Ndutu lodge its still not that many beds for a large area as the migration will go for miles, I think the space is still fairly limited in tha region but I am open to correction by anyone who knows more here.

Hope that helps and that others will comment on the Central vs. Ndutu human concentrations.

HariS

Thanks, Bill...