I'd suggest East Africa for your first safari. There you'll find the classic African landscapes and also more wildlife such as the Migration herds. You could go in June/July timeframe to Tanzania when it's cooler and perhaps catch the Migration herds in the western corridor area of the Serengeti. I'd add Tarangire NP and the Ngorongoro Crater to the beginning of the itinerary. On the northern safari circuit of Tanzania, the drives aren't all that long, except for the one from the Crater to the Serengeti. You could "backtrack" to the Lake Manyara airstrip and fly into the Serengeti, though. Then fly back to Arusha from the Serengeti, which should be your last stop. The roads from Arusha to Tarangire and from there to the gates of the Crater area are all paved and you get to see villages along the way, always interesting, so I wouldn't fly those segments.

I use Bill Given of The Wild Source in Colorado as my safari planner. He's got an excellent guide in Tanzania, Deo Magoye, who's also guided film crews. We used his services this year and had a great safari. With your budget, you should have no problem booking this trip. From Seattle to Kilimanjaro Airport (JRO), you can fly Delta/KLM via Amsterdam. The return flights usually list 2 stops, but that's because the flight out of JRO continues on to Dar es Salaam before returning to Amsterdam. You wouldn't deplane there.

You might consider adding on a 4-day trip to Zanzibar after the safari. I use Indoma Tours in Zanzibar. One of the owners has guided me in Zanzibar for several years. Stay in a beach resort like Pongwe Beach Lodge, then move to Stone Town (I like Tembo House) for a night. Then, hop over to Dar for your flight home. It's a nice way to relax after a safari and is a chance to experience the Swahili culture.

Agree mostly with Shay Tay about East Africa, where she puts emphasis on Tanzania, for the traditional open plains safari. As June/July arrive, while mid-day temps are usually in the mid-70s, evenings/morings are much cooler.

Likewise, from SEA you can pass on NYC, London, Paris or Rome and head direct to AMSterdam, a small city that if you choose a day or two to layover on either the outbound or return flights... is charming, easy to get around, great museums, restaurants. Then onto Kilimanjaro/JRO, Tanzania where as mentioned the 'migration' will be found in the Western Corridor during June, likely a bit farther north if you select July... they're animals and never any guarantee where. And even without the migration, there is game to be found at other areas as Tarangire (a mini-migration from mid-June-Oct), the Ngorongoro Crater and then the Serengeti.

I do differ with Shay Tay regarding ZNZ, especially if one in your party wants to avoid heat, as the coast is tropical, hot and humid year-round.

If you want temps somewhat lower than June/July... Aug & Sep, which are so-called 'winter' months, even on the Equator, are a bit cooler daytime and nights/mornings can be downright cold some areas.

Prices though for Tanzania are at peak starting June 1st thru October, but if you choose Kenya, know that June prices are still at mid-season rates, not into peak till July 1st - Sept (some places till Oct). As with Tanzania, Kenya also has diverse areas for all kinds of game, and here the 'migration' starts to arrive in the Masai Mara (same eco-system as the Serengeti separated by a border) mid-July though some years, earlier, staying usually thru Sept. Prices also tend to be less expensive in Kenya than Tanzania.

Both countries have known 'elephant' parks, two in Kenya at Amboseli with views of Kilimanjaro, Samburu to the north where you'll find unique species not found elsewhere; for rhino, the areas of Lewa and Ol Pejeta are great. The elephant park in Tanzania is at Tarangire (mentioned above)... so, it's only the Ngorongoro Crater that is unique to Tanzania, but will also probably be the busiest stop on a Tanzania itinerary.

Of course, both of our replies take you away from the southern African countries - Botswana which tends to be the most expensive of the safari countries, or South Africa - I must say you won't find a city like Capetown in Kenya or Tanzania.

You've heard from two of us, now lets see what others have to offer to get you on your way.

I would agree with the above. Went to Tanzania with a friend (2 women traveling) for my first trip and just fell in love with everything there! Serengeti, Ngorongoro, Manyara. Tented camps, private guide and vehicle throughout. Did not go to Zanzibar. Was there in mid June and temps were fine - saw some of the migration in the western Serengeti.

My second trip was to Botswana and Zimbabwe. Yes, it's more expensive, but I also went alone which increases cost. I was there in late Aug and early Sept. Mid day was very hot, morning and evening nice. I loved it there too, but really prefer East Africa - so am now planning my next trip for 2013 to Rwanda and Kenya, and once again with my first time travel buddy.

Whichever you choose, you will have a wonderful time, but really consider East Africa

Really helpful responses, thank you, Shay, Sandi and Cate - lots of detail so we have some starting places for further research.

Shay, you've provide the name of an outfitter and I appreciate that, and your comment re our budget is encouraging. I keep reading the $1K per person per day rate which is daunting. Sandi, I know you have been to Africa numerous times. Did you use an outfitter you can recommend on your first few times? Ditto, Cate, did you use an outfitter for your first trip?

And are any of you aware of 3 to a tent/room or are we looking at two doubles, one of us bunking with a stranger or paying a single supplement?

Thanks, again.

For my first trip and now for my upcoming trip I used Eben Schoeman (http://www.ebensafaris.com/). Even though his web site says "luxury" he will do any level you want. I consider my trips with him to be "mid level" - nice places to stay but nothing over the top. Less than $1000 per day by a fair bit. For my trip to Botswana I used Africa Adventure Company (http://www.africa-adventure.com/). Although the latter's web site lists many scheduled trips, I had Lynn Glasgow custom make a trip for me. Both companies were great to work with and I can recommend either one. Not sure how it would work having 3 people. When I traveled solo to Botswana I did have to pay the dreaded single supplement. I'm sure they would not try to put one of you with a stranger! No one would want that.

I believe Sandi has her own Africa travel company - so she'll likely respond to your inquiry.

Hiya Bowen Island!!

sandi can be reached thru Africa Serendipity

info@africaserendipity.com

She planned my customized Kenya trip last year and is great to work with. Very concise, detailed and really knows her stuff as we've all seen by her numerous responses here.

I was very happy choosing Kenya & Tanzania for my 1st safari last June( now planning my second next year in Bots & S.A.) as it really is your quintessential Africa with sprawling savannahs that you see in all the films.

Must say Kenya scored higher of the 2 countries because of Samburu for it's reticulated giraffe, grevy zebra and beisa oryx and the Masai Mara for it's sweeping plains and amazing wildlife.

Had fun in Nairobi for 3 days visiting Sheldricks Elephant Orphanage, a must for any elephant lover and check out their fostering programme before you go which allows you to come to the orphanage at feeding time.

Will never forget kissing my 1st giraffe at the Giraffe Centre!!

I'm also not a fan of high temps and wasn't really uncomfortable with the heat & humidity in Zanzibar in June, just make sure your room has A/C. Wouldn't have missed my time there for anything!

Here's my rather long trip report designed for first times like myself.

http://www.fodors.com/community/africa-the-middle-east/my-1st-african-adventurejune-2011.cfm

Sandi makes a good point of perhaps skipping Zanzibar if heat can be a problem. The ocean breezes keep things comfortable as KathBC notes, except perhaps in Stone Town away from the oceanfront. If you'd rather have more safari time and are in Tanzania, you could spend your first day in Arusha NP and stay over in Arusha a second night. I really like that park, but it's often overlooked. If the weather is clear you can see both Mt. Meru and Mt. Kilimanjaro from there. Also, there are black and white colobus monkeys in the forested areas of the park and you can do a walk to a lovely waterfall. It's a nice way to ease into the safari and shake off a bit of jet lag. Stopping over in Amsterdam for a couple of days works, too!

I, too, love Kenya, KathBC! A safari there would also be good, although by the time the Migration herds reach the Mara, it might be mid- to late August and it starts to warm up by then. In Samburu and points north, the elevation is lower and it's a lot warmer than the Mara. We had a Nova Scotian on our safari this year and, even in July in the Mara at its mile-high elevation, she went into heat shock one day. Fortunately, she was a nurse practitioner and instructed us how to treat her.

I, too, have used Sandi at Africa Serendipity and appreciate her expertise (she booked a Mara extension for another safari of mine.) However, in Tanzania I think that Bill's guide Deo is hard to beat. I think he and Bill are setting up their own outfitting company in Tanzania. No matter which safari planner you choose to use, give them a general budget, what you want to see, issues like what you've noted about the heat, time of year if that's a concern, etc. A good planner will work with you on all those points to design a safari that gives you all that you want.

Cate, thanks for those reccs, much appreciated.

Kath, started to read your TR and will finish it up after work. I'm now in Vancouver and my friends and I are the same age as you so your TR opening is very encouraging...

Shay, again, really helpful info.

My friends and I have a lot of reading/research to do but everyone's advice/info has really helped focus me. I think an East Africa trip looks like the way to go, especially for a first visit, and altho we have each budgetted $10K, I'd really like to spend a fair amount less. I'm meeting with my friends (from grade one no less!) in a couple of weeks. I'll let you know what we decide...

The one thing about Tanzania is that you're usually visiting national parks, so the places available to stay can be as luxurious or budget. Wherever you stay, you'll still be game viewing in the same places. First priority... a great guide! Then, I'd book as many tented camps as fit your budget. You'll find a wide range of prices on those, but still find something that fits your budget. Get some quotes and let us look at them for comment.

Linda, if you are often in Vancouver, and are interested in meeting up, KathBC (above) and I meet at least once a month to get our 'Africa fix' from one another & chat all night. Or - even Saturday or Sunday during the day as that way we can chat longer, and if your two friends live here, we could all get together. We can fill you full of all sorts of information & give you lots of advice on where to go and what to see. I am just in the midst of planning our 4th trip to East Africa (can you tell I'm hooked?) and have been to South Africa & Namibia once.

I go alone and never pay even close to $1k per day in high season for guide and vehicle and lodging, all costs borne by one person.

Why the stopover to and from? If it is because you want to take advantage of landing in another country and you have something particular in mind, then it's a great opportunity.

If you are trying to reduce jet lag, I'd suggest adding one buffer day up front to your trip and just fly straight through. If there are luggage problems, it gives you a day for the bags to catch up with you. If you are delayed a day, then your trip is not disrupted.

For 3 people, you'll be able have your own private trip easily, costwise, in East Africa.

Can you give more specifics on the one friend whose comfort level is not being met? What does that person need?

You are right to get a safari specialist. Some good hints given here.

Here are some past links on a first safari.

http://www.fodors.com/community/africa-the-middle-east/where-to-start-too-many-options.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/africa-the-middle-east/i-dont-know-how-to-get-started-planning-my-trip.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/africa-the-middle-east/help-with-first-trip-to-kenyatanzania.cfm


http://www.fodors.com/community/africa-the-middle-east/first-trip-to-africa---2008.cfm

From comments above, you do know where to reach me if you wish. And if for 2014, you do have time to plan as prices won't be available before mid-'13.

In both countries there are many lodges and tented camps that can accommodate the three of you, thus no need for the dreaded single supplement. With three, your daily cost for guide/vehicle is divided between you... reducing individual cost, and room/tent is also lower vs if two or even solo. However, each pays their own for daily park fees, any flights (recommended for the longest distances, but your decision).

>>by the time the Migration herds reach the Mara, it might be mid- to late August and it starts to warm up by then. In Samburu and points north, the elevation is lower and it's a lot warmer than the Mara.<<

Shay Tay's comment - granted there's no guarantee exactly when the herds arrive in the Mara (usually mid-July latest, if not earlier), but for sure 'it doesn't start to warm up' assuming Sharon was referring to the temps... Aug/Sep are 'winter' months with lovely mid-day temps and rather cool (if not downright cold) mornings/nights. She's spot-on re Samburu and other areas north, but still will have cool mornings/nights.

Altitude, whether in Kenya or Tanzania will always vary temps from area-to-area.

Shay, that's good to know re Tanzania parks' "luxury" levels.

Lynn, I think my one friend's request, and really all 3 of ours, is that we want that on-site elevated (?) tent experience with meals made for us, western-comfort toilets and good viewing transport... We have another friend who returned from a self-drive self-camping trip to S.A. and we all agreed that's not the way to go for us. So maybe that "luxury" label doesn't quite apply to us.

And I don't think we want a "private" trip but rather be part of a small group so I imagine that will help with cost.

Another major want for us is not to have to jockey with dozens of other vehicles for viewing, but I assume that's something we can take up with an outfitter.

Good to hear you've done trips for much less than $1k per day per person.

Great point about arriving one day early re luggage, hadn't thought of that. We want an extra day or two both legs mainly for jetlag (I now get antsy just flying to Europe) but also because we love NYC and Euro major cities and thought it would be fun to really pack this trip (it's for one of those major birthdays). Yes, those extra days add major coin, something to think about. Perhaps we'll just do it one leg.

Lynda, I now live in Vancouver (too lazy to change my log-in name) and I'd love to meet up with you and Kath. You can email me at lecarrefan@gmail.com .

Again, thanks everyone for their comments/advice. Any more suggestions always welcome.

PS Anyone care to share their info from their recent trip:
1. # of days on the ground;
2. total cost separating out airfare;
3. which country;
4. private tour or tour group or independent ?

Sandi, I know it's "winter" in East Africa in August and even into early September, but I wanted the OP to understand that this doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be cool all day. That's why I noted that her fellow Canadian had problems with the heat in July in the Mara, to the point of going into heat shock. And that was at an elevation of about a mile. At Meru, the days were actually hot, given that it's at 2000' elevation. It's all relative, but to those of us living in the Pacific Northwest, "hot" can mean something different that it does to someone in, say, the South. The nights are wonderfully cool, though, at that time of year.

ShayTay -

You got me there where 'mild' can mean something else for us who have those ugly northeast NYC summers... ugh! Mid-day temps below 75 is delightful and heavenly. But in Kenya/Tanzania, if the sun is shining that 70-75 can definitely feel much warmer.

BowenLinda - heads up! Please do not post your email address on an open forum, as you're game for scammers. If you wish to include an address, do as (sample) "linda dot smith at gmail dot com" - harder for the creeps to find you.

Private vs group... while the three of you would be 'the group' as a private tour, you have control - where you visit, how many days, accommodations and how long you spend game viewing of any species. With a 'group' departure, you're stuck with 'their' set dates, set routing (often not the best places for time of year), the accommodations and long transit times between areas. Actually, you won't really save that much money 'group vs private' and then have to put up with others who might not have the same interests, or after seeing one lion or elephant wanting to move on while you'd prefer to stay... it's decision by committee! Even some participants who are always late and throw off schedules. Besides with a group the guide will do things to try to accommodate all and that can wind up being quite frustrating.

There have been some recent threads re 'group' trips, as a Friendly Planet itinerary; there are also the OAT trips, and another thread earmarked three different itineraries, none of them being very good. That's why you'll find most of us recommend you 'do your own thing' and with three of you, can certainly get a safari within your budget with very nice comfortable accommodations (lodges or camps). You should scroll thru threads from the least week or so, even do a search on the forum for more info.

Also, pick up a few guidebooks... there's Fodor's Complete Safari Planning Guide, Lonely Planet's Kenya, Bradt Guide for Tanzania... all provide lots of useful information.

Regarding - too many vehicles at a sighting, well there's little you can do during peak season as others are there for the same reason. However, with your own guide you can pass by and return later (when a lion is sleeping, s/he are often then for quite awhile) or find your own sightings which is more likely.

Certainly 10/days will provide a great itinerary either country; with 14/days you can combine both being very selective where you visit in each. But know there is no right answer for everyone as safaris can be as short as 5-7/days and then the skies the limit depending on how far the budget will go.

Good points, all, re temps. Yes, my (usual!) summer is much cooler than a NYC summer.

Thanks for the sugg, Sandi, re email addresses. The one I posted is a one-off set up minutes before my post for just that reason. I wish Fodor's had TA's PM or whatever they are currently calling it.

Great explanation, Sandi, re private and group tours.

I have a couple of travel guides but Africa is such a big continent with so many disparate countries that I know so little (or nothing) about... I am having a much harder time focussing on this trip.

Again, thanks all.

Temps - Kenya in June was very pleasant, altho Samburu being closer to the equator was a lot warmer than say the Mara. In general the mornings and evenings were light polar fleece cool and mid day t-shirt/capri warm.

I would definitely research a private safari for all the reasons mentioned above and try for a canvas tent with ensuite where ever possible. Keep in mind these tents are not your typical North American tent but rather a hotel room with canvas walls.

Agree Africa is a very big continent which is why you'll likely be back once you've been...it's a bug we've all caught!

"we want that on-site elevated (?) tent experience with meals made for us, western-comfort toilets and good viewing transport... "

That's standard, no problem. I was wondering if the friend wanted rose petals and caviar.

"And I don't think we want a 'private' trip but rather be part of a small group so I imagine that will help with cost."

Consider Overseas Adventure Travel or The Africa Adventure Co. AAA just advertised safaris in the last magazine I got from them. Sandi's group comments are valid. You'll only have 4-6 people in the vehicle anyway. DO NOT accept any size in which you do not always have a window.

Your "Botswana fantastic but expensive" comment--Correct, but doable as a mobile safari. You may not have raised platforms for tents, though. So probably no Bots mobile.

If Cape Town is a requirement, then East Africa is probably out.

When you get around to obtaining quotes get some group departure quotes as well as private trip (meaning your group of 3) quotes.

Back to your when to go question, within those several links I posted is this chart.

http://www.africa-adventure.com/best_time_to_go

As a starting point, check out these itineraries for pricing and places.


http://www.africa-adventure.com/safari/10_day_big_five_game_safari
Add in Cape Town

http://www.africa-adventure.com/safari/12_day_best_of_southern_africa_safari
Add in Cape Town


http://www.africa-adventure.com/safari/11_day_south_african_safari_and_cape_highlights


http://www.africa-adventure.com/safari/14_day_african_journeys_safari_to_tanzania_and_kenya


http://www.africa-adventure.com/safari/12_day_mara_explorer_to_kenya_and_tanzania

Fantastic info, all, thank you. I have my reading set for the next while... L

Also have a read-thru of the New East African Trip Reports, wonderfully prepared by LyndaS... some interesting itineraries and routings over these past few years. Will give you an idea of what can be accomplished given the number of days you have in-country.

www.fodors.com/community/africa-the-middle-east/new-east-africa-trip-report-index.cfm

Note: There haven't been recent inclusions, as Lynda and others who have assisted in this great project have gotten tied up with life - personal, business, etc. - it's another resource. Besides routing, suggestions of tour operators and/or outfitters used by the travelers reporting.

Pour a glass of wine, settle in for some good and interesting reads.

Hi BowenLindia,,Just to give a general idea of cost, and different modes of transport (flyig etc) Porini tented camps get great reviews:

http://www.porini.com/kenya.html?sub=recommended-safaris

You wrote "with meals made for us." Do you mean a private cook just for the three of you ? The tented camps their own chefs/cooks, and will try to work with individual dietary preferences...but it is not just for your group.

Thanks, Sandi and Cali.

No, no fois gras just someone opening cans/cooking for the group. I am proud to say I am middle-aged and do not cook anymore...

LOL, same with me, Linda. Middle aged plus, and scant cooking!
I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the quality of food you'll find at the tented camps. No cans; no baked beans and frankfurters

Cooking? I walk past the kitchen and wave; sometimes I do dust the top of range!

Off topic, but inspired by Sandi, I couldnt resist quoting this sign:

"My idea of housework is to sweep the room with a glance."

The quality of food you get on safari is excellent. On one of my safaris, a woman who had traveled all over the world said that the food we were having was the best she had ever had on a trip... and we were in a mobile tented camp in the middle of the Serengeti!

If you want to see Cape Town, then I'd think about Shamwari as the game viewing venue. We went there a couple of years ago and it was fantastic. Not madly crowded, lots of animals roaming in a 90 sq mile park, great guides and about an hour from PE.

http://www.shamwari.com

We booked via a travel agent here in the UK, but there were several Americans there during our stay. We stayed in the main house but there are several options for other spots in the reserve.

"No, no fois gras just someone opening cans/cooking for the group"

You'll get way beyond that. The food will be too good and you'll likely over indulge unless you have exceptional will power. If you stay at camps/lodges there will be a chef and staff to prepare full meals or offer extensive buffets.

I've been getting a couple of catalogs in the mail for "Discoveries by Vantage." You can google vantage travel. They advertise small group trips of 18-24. I personally do not consider that a small group, but if your vehicle is limited to 6-ish with everyone having their own window, the overall group size is not such a big deal. Since you wanted group travel, it's a possibility. 16 days Kenya/Tanz with air from $6200, for example. That one drives from Serengeti to Mara, a big, long drive, and only 2 nts Mara. They have some Southern Africa trips too, probably similar to OAT or Smart Travel.

I'd still look into a private trip for the 3 of you.

Hi Lynn, In a previous thread i recall you mentioned Lion World Safaris (Your friend had used them?)
Prices are excellent. Any other info or feedback you've received?

Thank you.

Lion World is very tempting with price and descent accommodations. However, even though a few who posted here really enjoyed, had to admit it was too much in too short a timeframe. Lots of time in-transit, often arriving at lodge/camp for late lunch - hot, tired, dirty (roads can be quite dusty) - and then out on afternoon game drive.

Believe of the other 'group' tours mentioned may be somewhat slower paced, with even a flight or two tossed into the mix. But don't discount a private safari yet.

Great add'l info, everyone.
SO pleased to read about the quality of the food as I was able to cook (note the past tense) quite poorly and unimaginatively all on my own...
Sandi, I have definitely not written off a private safari yet. I am hard-pressed at work right now and haven't read everyone's links yet. One of my friends just got back from 2 weeks in Venice (lucky gal) and we are planning on the 3 of us getting together in a couple of weeks or so. Africa will definitely be on the agenda. As I think we won't be able to afford our first thoughts of a total of 14 days in safari, I really want the logistics to make sense and I think a private safari would better work.
Linda

No other Lion World feedback.

---------------
$10 K is total budget

Say $2K for international flts, probably high

That's 8K left

Allow $1,200 for stuff like visa, travel insurance, vaccines. That's probably high, but the travel clinic and vaccines, malaria pills can get pricey.

So at $6800

Allow $1000 for tips, souvenirs, bottled water which is sometimes provided in the vehicle & sometimes not, plus other drinks, meals in airports, etc.

Down to $5800 for the land portion.

With 3 people you can easily do a trip for $450 per person per day. Especially in Kenya.


You mentioned 14 days. Knock out 2 for travel, that's 12 days on safari, really more like 11, but say 12.

$450 x 12 = $5400

Maybe you were even considering the tips, souvenirs, travel clinic, insurance to be in addition to the $10k. Then you have even more $ to work with.

What sort of trip was in your "first thoughts?"

Another question. Have you thought of rooming arrangements? Each having your own room/tent? Are 2 of you buddies who will share? You can get a double and a single room throughout the trip and rotate-everybody gets a turn in the single room every 3rd night.

Lynn and Sandi, thanks for update and opinion on LIon World. I went to E Africa this summer "solo"and next trip, i'd like to save some $ either in group tour, or traveling with friends.

Re: plane flight--if anything, with LindaBowen coming from West Coast,
I' d say $2,0000 is too low an estimate, ESPECIALLY with stopovers. Each stopover, esp'lly if it is London LHR, will add its airport taxes.

re bottled water--i 'd mistakenly thought it's always included. Is that only on private safaris?

Lynn, that breakdown is helpful. Don't know yet about my friends but my "first thoughts" are really that, see elephants, experience a very different culture, people and landscape.

We had initially thought about doing one stopover per leg but we'll discuss that further.

"You can get a double and a single room throughout the trip and rotate-everybody gets a turn in the single room every 3rd night." - that's what we discussed but I thought we would then be looking at a single supplement. We'll see what everyone offers.

Linda - some camps have family tents that would sleep more than two. That might be an option to look into also and might be cheaper than two separate tents.

I'm late to the party, but I just wanted to say this:

>>I haven't found anything yet for the remaining $7K and my friend's comfort level

This absolutely baffled me. There's a zillion options out there that are perfectly what you're looking for. I've done quite a bit of safaris in Kruger area, in private reserves, with private guide, in fantastic more-than-comfy camps, etc.. and not once paid HALF of that amount. And yes, that includes flights to/from Jo'burg.

I have a friend whose wife judged Kruger to be a bit too scary, more specifically because it is a malaria area. I compiled them an itinerary starting in Cape Town, visiting the wine region, the garden route (De Hoop Nature Reserve and Knysna) and ending with a safari in the malaria-free Amakhala Private Reserve near Port Elizabeth. Two weeks has cost them 3000$ pp, rental car and flight Port Elizabeth back to Cape Town included. The safari was all-in, the other places half board mostly. It included places like Majeka House, Kanonkop House, and an "African Elite" Waterfront appartment. If that's not comfortable enough then I wonder what is

Seriously; where do you people find all these expensive itineraries??

Ciao,

J.

If you will be three, know that many of the lodges and even tented camps can accommodate 'triples.' Just be sure to indicate/ask when putting in your request... you can also for pricing of 2/sharing + single supplement, as comparison.

The accommodations themselves can be a family room/tent or even cottage. Ask. However, as already mentioned, each of you might prefer a night on their own, so even with the single supplement charge... you just divide the total of all three and each pays one-third. It's doable.

As the 'big dawg' (Bill Clinton) commented, 'it's in the math!'

At Maramboi Camp near Tarangire NP in Tanzania, we had three beds in our HUGE tent (on a platform, too.) You might find accommodations like that elsewhere. Or, find that 4th person. Hmmm... when are you going?

"I' d say $2,0000 is too low an estimate, ESPECIALLY with stopovers. Each stopover, esp'lly if it is London LHR, will add its airport taxes."

I forgot about the stopovers. Then $2K is too low.

"re bottled water--i 'd mistakenly thought it's always included. Is that only on private safaris?"

It depends. Sometimes it is included only in the vehicle. Sometimes the guide buys a bunch at a discount at the start of the trip and everybody shares the cost. Sometimes the guide buys the first case, but then any additional water you pay for.

Sometimes there is one free bottle in the room/tent or free boiled filtered water, then you buy any additional.

All properties provide small bottles of water in the bathroom for teeth brushing... do use this. And, when showering keep your mouth closed so no local water is swallowed.

Once out on safari, depending on property/cost of same, water is included for meals and during game drives at no additional cost. For most others (there are many more), you pay extra for water at meals and even during game drives.

However, if on 'private' tour, most all tour operators will provide at minimum, 1/large bottle of water for each pax/ per day. And, as mentioned above... you can on departing Arusha, stop at the Safeway for a case of water (rather inexpensive), sodas, munchies, etc. Most safari vehicles have a refrigerator, so cold can be kept cold.

Thanks, everyone, for your additional comments. Still have my head down re work (unexpected) but hopefully will grab some time next week to thoroughly read the links and TRs.

Sandi - "a family room/tent or even cottage": great news.

I almost hesitate to raise this issue: be kind, everyone. Our group is not faint of heart but the Canadian govt's travel warnings website has this comment re Kenya: "Canadians are advised to exercise a high degree of caution because of the increasing number of terrorist acts, kidnappings and incidents of crime targeting Westerners throughout Kenya." US also has a travel warning... obviously none of you were concerned enough to not travel to Kenya. You just used common sense and crossed your finger?

Well, I confess I haven't read every word of each of the 40-something posts above, but I'll give you our perspective.

We've been going to South Africa fairly regularly for the past seven or eight years, and have gotten to know the place pretty well (as visitors, of course. It would take a lifetime or longer to really "know" someplace as big, diverse, perplexing and wonderful as SA.)

My wife is also a fairly regular visitor to Kenya and Uganda, and occasionally Tanzania, where a charity she founded is working to fight a particular type of pediatric cancer that's 50 times more common in East Africa than in Europe or the US.

We've also visited (briefly) Botswana and Zimbabwe, but I'll focus mainly on South Africa v. Kenya.

For a first-time visitor with your criteria - climate, cost, etc., I would vote for South Africa without even thinking very hard. Here are my reasons:

The South African tourist infrastructure is much more highly developed than in Kenya. There's a vast range of accommodations, good roads, lots of great restaurants, telecommunications, etc.

In SA there are so many options on the safari front that it's frankly a bit bewildering - numerous different national parks and reserves with unique fauna, different micro- and macro-climates, some distant, some close, each with a range of accommodations ranging from incredible luxury down to self-catering cottages or tented camps, in all price ranges.

There are huge areas where the landscape is the star, not the animals - the Garden Route, Panoramic Route, Drakensberg mountains, the Cape Peninsula, the West Coast...

There are fabulous towns and villages - from Cape Town to Zulu villages in the shadow of high peaks, to Paternoster on the Atlantic coast, with its brightly painted fishing boats beached below whitewashed thatched cottages.

In short, it's all there.

Now, there's no denying that something like the Masai Mara migration is unique in the world, and worth some real sacrifices to see. But for first-timers, the issue with Kenya, it seems to me, has to do with what you'll be doing when you're not on safari.

Put bluntly (and others are free to disagree) Nairobi is intimidating and rightly so. It's a huge city where many tourists feel secure only when they're in their hotels or in very limited other zones. It's congested, polluted, noisy and confusing to many visitors; many tourists who've come to safari just pass through Nairobi, or else go on quick tours to the Sheldrick orphanage or to Karen Blixen's house or to the giraffe sanctuary, then they bug out. All fine, but the name of the game is insulation. The hotels are big and expensive, and yes, the political situation in Kenya is not entirely stable, although it's unlikely you'd be in any danger. Nairobi is full of life - incredibly full, and it's vibrant, artistic, and all over the map in terms of culture and politics. But will you get a chance to experience that? Frankly, probably not very much.

For my money, if you're coming that far, it would seem to me that leveraging your dollar and time investment with some variety would be a good thing, and South Africa provides that variety without even blinking.

If we were in your shoes (and we were not that long ago) here's what I'd do:

Come to South Africa at the end of August. Land in Joburg and fly (or drive if you're okay on the left side of the road - it's very easy) up to Hoedsprit or Nelspruit, from which you can be picked up by a safari lodge in the Sabi Sand reserve.

There are all sorts of price points in the SSGR, but to pick one lodge where we've stayed out of the air, Elephant Plains' rate is around $200 - $230 per person. Believe me, that's fantastic value for what you'll receive.

Book three nights there, and you'll be planning on how to come back while you're having breakfast on the second morning. You'll probably see the "big five" in the first day, if that matters. The temperature will get into the seventies F in the day, and it will be quite chilly at night and in the morning. But no rain - it's the dry season, and no mosquitoes either.

Go back to Hoedsprit or Nelspruit and rent a car for a day, and go visit the Panoramic Route and Blyde Canyon, around an 90 min. from the Kruger/Sabi gates. Did you ever see the movie The Gods Must be Crazy? (If not, you should rent it.) Well, God's Window, right off the highway, is where that was filmed in part; or see the "Three Rondavels" and marvel at how the landscape can be so incredibly different than that around the Sabi Sand reserve, but so close. Maybe spend the night at the Graskop Hotel (funky and fun) and eat incredible pancakes next door at Harrie's.

Then fly down to Cape Town and spend three or four days enjoying that marvelous city. Eat Malaysian food, drink amazing South African wines, visit Robben Island, visit the penguins at Simon's Town.

Rent a car and go visit the winelands, then take it (or use the guide services of long time Fodor's poster Selwyn Davidowitz - http://www.ilovecapetown.com/ ) and go up to West Coast National Park, an hour or so up the Atlantic side from downtown Cape Town. Here you'll see antelope in the wildflowers, and... oh, the wildflowers! It's nothing short of stunning. Weather-wise, it will feel just like home. (I'm in Seattle.)

If you have more time you can add more regions.

Obviously you have to make a tough call. Others can well argue the benefits of a more all-inclusive experience in East Africa, and there are indeed some benefits. But you also might discover that things besides the safari have great appeal, too. For that, I'd pick South Africa.

A few photos to illustrate:

Sabi Sand

Nice kitty: http://gardyloo.us/SAf09J%20111as.JPG

Warning - objects in mirror are closer than they appear: http://gardyloo.us/SAf09J%20244as.JPG

View from our rondavel, Chitwa Chitwa: http://gardyloo.us/aug1718m%20005a.JPG

Panoramic Route - Three Rondavels: http://gardyloo.us/africa10J%20027a.JPG

Paternoster - http://gardyloo.us/aug24b%20016s.JPG

West Coast National Park

Wildflowers: http://gardyloo.us/aug24b%20044s.JPG

Including antelope: http://gardyloo.us/aug24b%20066s.JPG

Traveling on the Garden Route: http://gardyloo.us/africa17J%20028b.jpg

Spring near Stellenbosch, Winelands: http://gardyloo.us/902JS%20071a.jpg

Bo-Kaap (Malay) neighborhood, Cape Town: http://gardyloo.us/903JS%20019a.jpg

Whether the US or Canadian governments, these are 'warnings' only and NOT 'DO NOT TRAVEL' as there are warnings for travel most everywhere around the world nowadays. Each government has to cover their butt, why these are posted. The US 'warning' has been issued and reissued since the '98 Embassy bombings in Nairobi and Dar-es-Salaam, Tanzania. And even during the '07-'08 political upheaval in Kenya, tourists were never targetted or harmed.

Granted NBO isn't Capetown, nothing really is like Capetown, but neither is NBO all scary. For that matter, neither is Johannesburg/JNB a place that visitors stop any longer, if they do, than at NBO.... arv JNB, and onto elsewhere. Besides you're there for safari, so you don't really need more than a day in NBO to visit the sites as mentioned above... hundreds of thousand tourists do so yearly, with no problems reported. Then you're off on safari, whether by road or flights (where to and budget dependent).

In the end, you'll have to decide - group or private, self-drive or driver/vehicle, South Africa or East Africa.

You've got some research still to do.

If the warning is upsetting to any of your group members, then pick Tanzania instead of Kenya or go to South Africa. There are US agents that have you sign a waiver that indicates you are aware of the travel warning, and if that might further concern you, just opt for a different location.

You don't want to lose one of your party of 3 because of the warning, and you don't have to.

If that South Africa itinerary of Gardyloo's looks appealing to you, but you don't want to rent a car and drive yourselves, consider Wayne of Take2Tours. Again, with 3 of you, dividing the fixed cost of the vehicle/guide works nicely.

Or pick a Sabi Sands lodge (private concession adjacent to Kruger) and maybe Phinda (cheetah sanctuary) near Richard's Bay and do just safari stuff.

These would definitely meet the needs of your one member holding out for comfort, but it can get pricey. Here are low season rates for Phinda, which correlate well to low season in other parts of South Africa.

01 May - 20 Jun, 1
6 Sep - 10 Oct,
15 Nov - 20 Dec
Rand 3,995

I personally am taking advantage of the early Dec. low season rates at Phinda.

Thanks to everyone for the extra input. Gardyloo, your input was really helpful (and I loved your photos). Lynn, your plans looks great... I'll be back once the three of us have figured out exactly what we want.

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