LAleslie

There are several reports of this incident on the Web. This one says the lodge employee accompanying the tourists was unarmed. A Guardian (UK) report mentions a guide but doesn't say whether he/she was unarmed.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news...ectid=10618828

cw

This report also said the guide was unarmed. Very sad.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/07/wo...ephantbrf.html

LAleslie

Not sure if a rifle would have made a difference if the elephant came from behind. But certainly you shouldn't be walking around elephant territiry with an unarmed escort.

twaffle

The incident happened outside the National Park system and consequently any walking would have to be done without armed guards as only the KWS rangers can carry arms on public land. As far as I know.

The area is used for nature walks rather than hiking with potentially dangerous animals, however, as we all know the dangers can be around at any time.

The woman and her husband were working in Nairobi, I believe, and weren't tourists on a safari. This may account for a different attitude towards the dangers involved. Not many tourists take a small child on safari for the very reason that most camps and lodges don't accommodate them.

Always very sad when these incidents happen.

sandi

Very sad, no doubt, but when there are ayas (nannies) available, why carry an extra 20+/lbs when out in the wild and might have to make a sudden run from danger as others with them did.

There are many visitors who travel with little ones and stay at camps/lodges that offer cribs/netting/food; besides little ones under 5/yrs are FOC. However, unless the parents have arranged for private vehicle (and should have their own childseat), the children have to stay behind during the adult's game drives. Why aya's are available.

Reminds me of the gal (who was quite familiar with, might even have lived in Kenya) went running only to be trampled by an ellee.

Or the British honeymoon couple (2/yrs ago) doing a walk up near Mara Safari Club or outside Richard's Camp, surprised by an ellee who came out of nowhere - husband was killed.

Sorry folks, but there are wild animals out there. I don't/won't do walks - with or without some guy with a weapon.

justshootme

This is exactly why I don't think safaris are safe. I know there are many posters on this forum who love safaris and plan another immediately after they return home from a safari adventure. I do wonder how an armed guide can protect you if an animal attacks from behind. Even if there is a small group on a safari everybodies looking in the same direction, wild animals will attach when they want to.

cary999

Don't some camps go walking with two guides, one front leading and one at back? The (only) couple walks I've been on were in a very open area where elephant or buffalo can be easily seen. Now flat cats are another story. I've had trackers tell me that they have on foot come within a couple meters of flat lions. And the lions got up and walked away. That's when the trackers saw then.

regards - tom

atravelynn

"justshootme on Jan 9, 10 at 11:37am
This is exactly why I don't think safaris are safe. "

Your comment and your name make an ironic coupling. Are you referring to walking safaris or are you including safaris in a vehicle?

LAleslie

Twaffle, thanks, didn't realize that about areas outside parks.

Sandi, naturally I wondered about the wisdom of carrying a baby around. Judgment seems way questionable. I was quite surprised that you don't do walks. I'm actually quite nervous about the one night we're spending at a southern Tanzania bush camp in Selous; we have to walk a couple of miles to get there, then walk back in the morning. Animals in this area are much more skittish than the acclimated ones in, say, Botswana or Sabi Sands.
And those flat cats, easy to trip over Tom! Oh well, there are much scarier things in Los Angeles. At least animals don't shoot!

christabir

I think it's a chance those of us who love to walk on safari are willing to take. I agree LAleslie - I drive in rush hour traffic every day - much more likely to have something bad happen. We make choices every day. You make a great point that some animals are acclimated to humans and in those areas we pose no risk. I think (in my vast experience of warding off wild african animals - if I knew how to do emoticons I'd insert wink here) flash-bangs are more effective than guns when it comes to elephants, and most other animals. The woman in question in Kenya was originally from Long Island so it made the local news here. "Everyone" thinks I'm nuts that I can't wait to go back.

When we were in Botswana an elephant trampled two of the staff right in camp while we we on a drive. Hurt, but not killed. And a pride of lions found the public restroom!! Imagine the guest's surprise when he had to go. (everybody is fine) And the doctor on vacation from Doctors Without Borders who was killed by a hippo while on makoro trip in Botswana a couple of years back.

LAleslie- Are you nervous enough to change your plans? Is it an area where they still hunt? I'd be nervous, too, but I'd imagine that this walk is made on a regular basis - have you heard of any problems before?

sandi

It has nothing to do with "problems before" at that remote camp in the Selous. When it comes to wild animals especially in an area where game isn't used to humans, "one time is enough." And, you don't want the 'one-time' to be your time!

Even when in vehicles amongst game used to humans, you're advised to stay in vehicle, no fast movements like standing up, and that the moment you put your foot on the ground, game can see you as an enemy on their turf or "food." Granted, some game might ignore humans, but who ever knows.

So my personal feeling is "no walks."

Bushkid0

Hi guys,

Interesting thread going on here (and 'scuse me throwing my two cents worth in again). LOL!

I consider a walking safari to be one of the most enlivening and incredible experiences one can have, and certainly puts you in touch with your world as few other other experiences can.

The very rare incidences of wild animals killing human beings always attracts such concern (because such instances are so rare). I'm not in any way discounting the tragedy of this situation.

I live in South Africa. Millions of people swim in our oceans every year with tens of thousands of sharks. I can count shark attacks on one or two hands. I can count elephant attacks in SA on one or two hands. Every year, millions of people come into contact with wild animals, either deliberately or inadvertantly. But the number of incidents is insignificant if you compare it to the number of encounters.

I don't want to play around with statistics, but I can assure you that these instances are extremely rare. Most wild creatures will try avoid human contact, and move away. It's the habituated guys that are the problem. And those that have been hunted or threatened or harassed or provoked.

I stayed at a camp in the Okavango where a guide was killed by an ellie two years ago (three weeks after it happened). During the night some ellies moved in, and generally minded there own business (one of them sleeping within a few feet of my tent for several hours). All was relatively peaceful and we treated these guys with respect (and got within 20 feet of them the next morning without arousing any negative response).

While we were walking to our transport, however, the camp manager suddenly snapped into action (and panic). We were going to walk within 100ft of an ellie. She and her staff then fired thunder flashes at this guy, who was pretty much ignoring us, and pandemonium broke loose. The poor bull crashed through the bush trying to get away (can you imagine the impact on an ellies ears, being many more times more sensitive than ours).

Until that moment, we were in no danger. The camp manager placed not only us, but her staff as well, in danger. I then realised that her absolute paranoia was probably the direct cause of the ellie killing the guide a few weeks earlier. She should never have worked there.

Thank goodness, she left the camp a few days later. There has never been another incident that I know of, and the ellies and guests live in peace.

In my experience, wild animals very rarely go out deliberately to kill or harm people unless they have been provoked or threatened (or for some reason, have decided that human beings make good eating or stomping grounds). Very often, the underlying causes are not immediately apparent - sometimes more historical).

I don't know about you folk, but I'll take a walking safari any time I can.

justshootme

atravelynn, I am refering to both types of safaris. Love the comment about my user name, if only Percy would chime in on this thread, he'd be teasing me in no time!

I just don't understand why people think that wild animals don't attack, they do, sometimes it's another animal, sometimes tourists or park rangers/camp guides. One of the camps I stayed in had recently lost a guide that was attacked.

christabir

BK-
I agree 100 percent. Well said.

spassvogel

It's a very sad incident and now this mother/baby become the reason for enhancement fo security rules.

Why can't people use their common sense?

Are some "stomacks" not working anymore?

Have some humans totally lost their "instincts"?


Frankly - game walks should only be done if the walker/guest leaves an indemnity form in the favour of the animal behind.

I honestly hope that ele hasnÄ't been killed for just showing normal behaviour!

If one wants to intrude on foot animal kingdom - that one should be prepared to pay the price tag for an animal which just acts normally!

Isn't it enough that we drive within animal kingdom?

And yes - safari is not a visit to a zoo. There are dangers involved but can be minimized by choosing the right personnel and listening to ones own stomach.


From what I have read the lodge will be in deep trouble if it's correct that it's advise was "it's safe to walk" and even for "taking the baby along" , having no emergency number at hand being totally unqialified to handle such an incident etc. etc.

I think they will be taught the tough way what it means to take it on the light shoulder!

Regarding armed guides:
They are NOT allowed in National Parks!
If one requests a game walk it's always in the presence of the camp's guide PLUS a kind of KWS certified ranger who carries the rifle.

SV

stokeygirl

I knew Paddy Smith, the British man who was killed on honeymoon in the Masai Mara in 2006. I was deeply shocked by his death, particularly as only a few months beforehand I had been congratulating him and his fiancee on their wonderful choice of honeymoon destination. Also because I have been on a number of walking safaris myself and South Luangwa NP, famous for its walking, remains my favourite park in Africa.

Has it put me off walking? No. Tragic accidents happen in all fields of activity, be it walking safaris, mountaineering, skiing (look at Natasha Richardson, for example) or simply crossing the road. I agree with Bushkid's comments that walking safaris are an amazing experience.

However, it has made me more cautious and much more aware of the risks and more respectful of wild animals. I have been on several walking trips since Paddy's death, with some trepidation. Personally, I don't find the presence of an armed ranger in itself to be that reassuring. I'm slightly sceptical that, should an animal choose to charge, possibly out of nowhere, that a ranger would be able to aim, fire and stop it in its tracks. I almost think that armed rangers are there more for the peace of mind of the walkers. Rather, I think it's the experience of the guide and the behaviour of the walkers that will do the most to minimise the risks. Listening to the guide, staying close and not lagging behind and keeping quiet and staying aware of your surroundings are all important, and not trying to insist on getting closer if the guide doesn't seem comfortable (as to some extent they might push the boundaries to keep guests happy). Of course, the presence of an armed ranger does no harm. I do think that a bit more could be done sometimes to brief guests a bit better about the risks prior to a walk. I know camps don't want to scare people, but a proper safety briefing would be a good idea and often seems to be overlooked. As a sailor I'm used to being talked through use of life jackets, flares, radios etc even though the chances of needing that info are fairly slim.

Many people do underestimate the risks. For example, I was on a canoe safari last year and at one of our lunch/siesta stops some of the group wandered off along the river bank without the guide to watch some elephants drinking. I went with them a little way, then turned back as I wasn't comfortable going too close without the guide.

The poster above who mentioned the walking in southern Selous is, I think, justified to have some concerns. I read someone's trip report (I forget if it was here or on another forum) of that area and it does sound as if the animals there are very jittery due to the surrounding hunting areas. I did a walk in the Maputo Elephant reserve where the elephants are notoriously aggressive due to previous poaching and our guide was noticeably nervous just to find fresh elephant dung.

I do find it disturbing that every time there is a death on safari that people are very quick to jump in and apportion blame. Not so much on this thread I'm pleased to see. Sometimes tragic accidents happen, as they will do when dealing with unpredictable elements such as wild animals. However, I don't think it's a bad thing that such incidents make camps reassess their safety policies.

LAleslie

Christabir, no I'm not changing plans. I wouldn't miss this. The bush camp in question is part of Beho Beho, one of the older Selkous camps that has great guides. If I arrive and get a bad feeling, sure, I could conceivably cancel. I have a pretty good gut for when things aren't right. I have no idea how close any hunting concessions might be.
I do plan to ask lots of questions since the amount of hunting in Africa, from what I read on these boards, is far more prevalent than I imagined. Silly me, I thought the day of the hunter had nearly vanished.
Bushkid, I do realize how rare these incidents are. (Your comment about the habituated ones being the problem is intersting.)
I do think posting about them is useful, not to scare people but the opposite: as a reminder that this isn't a zoo. I've heard--and seen--too many stories about people "wandering off" or acting idiotic. Maybe from the safety of a Land Rover safarigoers can become complacent about wild animals.
Sandi, you're right. The individual unpredictability is what's gulp-inducing. And the statistical/rarity argument is falacious in my view. I was only joking about L.A. It just takes one time. But I've gotta do this.
And speaking of walking safaris: Has anyone seen the original "Trader Horn" movie (1931)? Stars Harry Carey and Duncan Reynaldo (The Cisco Kid) and features some documentary-type shots of African wildlife and tribal villagers that are stunning. In those days, no cars, no luxury tents, just khakis (and silly hats), guns, and tribal bearers carrying kegs of rum. These guys go on a REAL walking safari! Saw it last night and highly recommend it--one of the first talkies, and the conditions they filmed it in must have been beyond adventurous.

ShayTay

LALeslie, have you read Peter Matthhiessen's book, "Sand Rivers"? That's a must-read before your trip!

joeyi

My nephew is a student at ISK where Sharon Brown and her husband worked. I emailed my sister in law to see if she was my nephew's teacher. this was her reply:

"no, but she was also the school librarian and he did interact with her in that capacity. she was very nice. very sad for the whole school, which resumes today. we had gone camping at the same place (castle forest lodge) about 2.5 years ago, walked the same trail (without a guide!) and the whole time I was thinkning "what if an elephant appears?" now i know... we were foolhardy and lucky. she wasn't so lucky... they say that because she was carrrying the baby, she couldn't run fast enough to get away. Thursday the husband and relatives went home to long island with the bodies. life is short sometimes....
"

spassvogel

LAleslie

In order to get you into the picture regarding trophy hunting in Africa:

Besides hundreds, if not thousands, of outfitters you can google here is one article which gives you an idea of how little ethics are involved in that bloody sport:

http://www.africahunting.com/hunting...lion-hunt.html

SV