FoggyEthan

Sitting here in the U.S. I'm lost in all the different companies offering safaris in Africa. I'm looking to travel with a group since I may be traveling on my own, so please don't change the topic to be about traveling independently.

I'd like advice on how to compare two different tours. Obviously there's the destinations chosen. And the choice of hotel/lodge/camp is a big $$$ difference. Anything else? Number of flights vs. driving? Type of safari vehicles?

I'd most like any advice on figuring out in advance what the quality of the lodging will be. I normally go to tripadvisor.com but most of the places either aren't listed or only have a couple of reviews. And I don't know how to check the nightly prices since they aren't on expedia and no web site provides me with normal rates.

There are huge difference in price between different companies. OAT seems to be $200/night while Micato is well over $1,200/night. And they mostly seem to just be using Wilderness Safaris properties. Can I just assume that all properties of W.S. are equal in quality?

Thanks!
-- Ethan

FoggyEthan

Being the first to reply to my own thread is probably not considered good form, but I thought I'd put in a few specific examples.

When choosing between hotel quality, I'm much more interested in the quality of the food and good viewpoints than I am in expensive building materials or obsequious service. Reading the Micato brochure I saw the word "luxury" so many times it was actually a turnoff.

Wilderness Travel has a few Africa trips -- I don't know who handles their operations. They have a trip that they call "Peace Parks" along the Zambezi, and a Namibia trip. I'll list the lodging names. If you're familiar with them, I'd *love* any insights as to what to expect.

Islands of Siankaba (Zambia upriver from the falls)
Impalila Island (far eastern Namibia)
Linyanti Bush Camp (Borders Chobe)
Somalisa Camp (Hwange, Zimbabwe)

Sossusvlei Wilderness Camp
Hansa Hotel (Swakopmund)
Hoanib Camp (??)
Ongava Tented Camp (near Etosha)
Skeleton Coast Research Camp

Side note -- I read about OAT's overbookings and BBB rating. Seems like a major negative.

KIBOKO

Before comparing tour companies you really need to select a destination. If your interest is in safari(game drives) a comparison of tours should include number of game drives and location. For example an OAT trip may include many days of travel, home visits, school visits etc. whch are less expensive fillers. The location within a country is also important. Is the area known for good game viewing. What looks like a great value is not always so.

cj

mpkp

I would look at the maximum number of people they take on a tour. The smaller the better for me.

I would look at where they go -- If you are looking at Namibia you will be going for the scenery and not the animals as Ongava is where the animals are but not in Soussevlei etc. That said, I loved Namibia but it was not the first country I went to and I did combine it with another country where I could see animals.

If you fly between places, you sill spend more time at your destination doing activities. But that will increase the cost. We chose to do this in Namibia. We met people who chose to drive and really enjoyed it also. However, we had limited time and wanted to make the most of it.

Wilderness safaris has a "paw" system of rating their camps. You can look on their web site to see it. Some are more luxurious than others.

Skeleton Coast makes a trip quite expensive. You can only do this with WS and I do regret not doing it but it would have added about $10,000 to the trip when we were deciding for both of us and I couldn't justify it. It is only reached by plane. Talking with people, it is an amazing place.

I stayed at Sousevlei Wilderness Camp and it was very nice -- this was one of the few places I was not happy with the guide but on a tour you usually have a guide that travels with you so that would not be an issue for you.

We stayed at Ongave lodge -- not tented camp. Although I liked the tented camps and my husband prefers it, the air conditioning at the lodge was very welcome -- we went at the time of the year it gets really hot there. Also the lions were residing at tented camp at that time so I would not have been as comfortable -- not being able to leave your tent or get out of your car with them around. I did not hear that there were any problems for the guests but it would have been a little close for me.

Safari vehicles matter a great deal to my husband -- driving around in a minivan is something he would not do. Land Rovers are preferred or Land Cruisers. I would not want there to be more than two people on a seat or 6 to a vehicle.

Did not stay at hoanib camp but did stay at desert rhino camp which was a favorite or ours. I believe the terrain is similar. Desert rhino focuses on rhino which we had wanted to see.

By searching for the camps here, you will get a lot of feedback. The problem for you is that most people here decide between camps but when you go as a group, they have decided it for you. You may have some you want and one or two that you would prefer to be in a different camp in the area. That said, WS and &beyond Africa are both class acts and I think you would be ok with either of those companies. In Southern Africa I do not think you need to be concerned with minivans -- this is more East Africa.

sandi

From your posting appears you're looking at southern Africa. But you're not comparing apples-to-apples in any way.

Micato who is primarily an East African (Kenya) company offers group itineraries at high cost; though considered luxury, many of the properties they use are often mid-range. OAT also offers small groups but way different itineraries and type of lodging. Wilderness properties which can't be booked direct, are mostly very expensive.

So, which country/ies are of interest, when traveling, how many days in-country?

Best I can remember, can't recall many traveling with Micato to southern African countries. OAT, on the otherhand, generally gets good reviews even if their Boston office is lacking... their ground operators in-country are good. OAT also offers their itineraries inclusive of international air.

Why not list some of the itineraries as comparison with costs. Your questions re each. We can then comment.

andybiggs

We stayed at Ongava Tented Camp a few months ago, and it was wonderful. They have recently rebuilt all of the tents from the ground up, and they are very nicely laid out and comfortable. I prefer smaller lodges and camps over larger ones, so the Tented Camp was preferred over the main Ongava Lodge.

Highly recommended.

atravelynn

FoggyEthan,
No problem with responding to your post as long as you don’t insult or argue with yourself.

You are right about the difficulty of finding costs of various properties in a group trip.

Sometimes www.e-gnu.com gives approximate rates. There are a ton of companies that book trips to Africa as you have discovered.

As KIBOKO points out, first you should decide where you wish to travel. When you can travel and what you hope to see/do will likely dictate where.

Here is a link that shows best wildlife viewing in different locations during the year, plus what animals are most likely seen where, and temps.

http://www.africa-adventure.com/dsp_besttime.html

“And the choice of hotel/lodge/camp is a big $$$ difference” Usually camps are more expensive than lodges due to a lower guest/staff ratio. I’m not referring to budget participation pup tent camping, but the types of places you mentioned.

“Number of flights vs. driving?” When going with a group, driving is usually less expensive because you all share the cost of the fixed cost of the driver and vehicle. Many itineraries combine driving and flying.

“Type of safari vehicles?” The itineraries you’ve given are in Southern Africa where vehicles are typically open. The question is whether they have 2 or 3 rows of seats.

Here is a thread on the different vehicles in Southern Africa
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34975438

Here are some discussions on vehicles that are generally found in East Africa
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34929680
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34872251
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34862745
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34821983

Here is a link to transportation in general including flying vs. driving and vehicle type
http://www.kiliwarriors.com/safari_vehicles.htm

The Wilderness Travel company in California is different from Wilderness, often referred to here, with Mpkp’s mention of the paw rating system. Wilderness (just Wilderness) based in Maun and South Africa has camps that Wilderness Travel in CA may use. The two companies are not related; they just have similar names.

Wilderness (the one in Africa) also does group mobile safaris and I’ve gone on one in Botswana that was outstanding.

After vowing never to travel with OAT, I investigated more and found that most of the cancellations were on cruise ships. Those that have gone to Africa with OAT seem to really have enjoyed themselves. I’ve never traveled with OAT.

If you are looking for high end group camping trips in Africa, here is something I copied from another thread:
Here are some more on a Wilderness mobiles.( http://www.wilderness-safaris.com/)


http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34821348

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34928477

This is from Linhelen who sent me an email on Capricorn. I think Wilderness Travel in California uses them (or used them) as their ground operator for mobile camping.
"...experienced travelers and I couldn't have wanted for better company. We were all in synch. ..."

http://capricornsafaris.com/index.html

" ...and they do a good job of stating their philosophy and what they do. The guide was excellent and the hardworking camp staff (6) were very nice as well. I was with only 3 other people, a fellow from Glasgow who had done this trip with the same company over 10(!) times and a couple (she was French and he was English..."

Masson safaris described
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34684546

Gametrails Botswana
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34701244

Uyaphi has a useful website. This mobile was discussed once. I don’t know if anyone has gone on it and reported back.

http://www.uyaphi.com/safaris/bots/authenticsafari.htm

ccAfrica does mobiles--now &Beyond.

http://www.ccafrica.com/expeditions/bots.asp

General discussion of mobiles
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34866915

http://fodors.com/forums/postreply.j...p;tid=34951237

Good luck in your planning and please post and things shape up with your plans.

FoggyEthan

Thanks to everyone! I have a lot of questions to answer, and a ton of links to digest. Let me start by responding to the questions, and then I'll get to the links.

People asked me about destination. The charts seemed to say that June was a better time (slightly) for southern rather than eastern Africa, so I figured I'd use that to cut my choices in half. Mosquitoes have it in for me, so I'd rather be where it is furthest from a rainy season.

I was thinking of spending around a month. Hopefully I won't get bored of yet-another-game-drive, although opinions on this would be welcome. I am looking at Namibia as a good way to mix animals with beautiful scenery, getting some variety of experience.

Re WS's paws: the only place I found them listed was on the pdf file "Camp Brochure". Is that the best place? I assume they don't have anything so convenient as a list of all their properties? 8-) I've had a hard time navigating their site and getting to real solid data.

WS lists a ton of departure dates. Trips seems to depart constantly. Could you put two possible concerns to rest? One concern is that, with so many dates, they end up canceling a lot of them last minute to consolidate, moving you up or down a week. The other is that you don't travel as one group the whole time. As a solo traveler, I've found it easier to meet people when they know that they're stuck with you for the whole two weeks. 8-)

I do know that Wilderness Travel is a completely separate outfit. They don't have a particularly unique name. I have traveled with them before, taking two trips back-to-back in Southeast Asia, so I've been considering continuing with them.

WT has two trips (the ones I listed) that go back-to-back, which would be convenient. My biggest concern is that their "Peace Parks" trip goes to Botswana, but completely skips the Okavango and the Kalahari. Its first two sites are along the Zambezi, then there's one that's not in Chobe but supposedly on its edge, and then there's Hwange in Botswana. Any opinions on whether I'll be disappointed with a visit that excludes the Okavango and Kalahari? Will a full week along the Zambezi mean lots of river trips and not good accessibility to the critters?

BTW I do understand that I should plan to return someday, so the Okavango is not gone forever. It just seems a shame (and strange) to be so close at such a good time of year, only to skip it.

As to OAT, I'm still trying to wrap my head around their being so much cheaper. They are about $200/night. Wilderness Travel and NHA are around $600-800/night. A huge difference. You mentioned that they have lots of filler days. Do they also stay in mediocre accomodations serving gruel for all 3 meals, and use old schoolbuses for transportation? 8-)

As to cultural visits, this is an area of concern. When I was in SE Asia we had them too, but they were somewhat inauthentic to my mind. Sometimes there were a few people in fancy local dress that you could pay to get a photo. There was almost always something you were presented that you could pay for. Or you would stand around and hand out a few things to the school children, which was OK. But what stood out was that none of them spoke English, I didn't speak their native language, and so there was only the most limited of interactions.

Could someone help tune me in to what to expect in southern Africa? Are there different kinds, and I should check with the tour in detail to figure it out?

Air conditioning came up. I only sleep well when the temperature is quite cool. Preferably around 65F or lower. If the temperature in the tent at night is 70F or above, I'll really need a fan or A/C in order to sleep. Is this uncommon for a tent? In June will this even be an issue in Namibia and Botswana?

Thanks to everyone! I'll dig in and start digesting the links...

-- Ethan

ShayTay

June is winter in southern Africa, you don't don't need to worry about A/C. It will be quite chilly at night. As for OAT, I've not been on their southern Africa safari, but have done their Tanzania trip, as well as a couple of others (Egypt and Costa Rica.) There have been some trip reports here on Fodors about their southern Africa trip and the travelers enjoyed it. As Sandi noted, their ground operators are good, but the Boston office usually manages to screw something up during the planning stages; you just have to watch your paperwork closely. No, you don't eat gruel and ride on school buses!

About the WT Peace Parks safari: that's awfully spendy for where they go ($8000 to $8400!) You could do OAT's trip, which goes to much the same areas as the Peace Parks trip. However, the OAT trip in June is about $6000, including international air from the US! Then, you could do a "breakaway" as OAT calls it fly back at some later date. Stay over in Africa for an additional couple of weeks, as you said you wanted to stay for a month, and go on to Namibia or the Sabi Sands area in South Africa.

atravelynn

“I was thinking of spending around a month." You can combine a couple of group trips in a month!

"Hopefully I won't get bored of yet-another-game-drive, although opinions on this would be welcome.“
Highly unlikely you'll get bored, especially if you mix it up with activities and scenery/landscape as it appears you are doing.

“Re WS's paws: the only place I found them listed was on the pdf file "Camp Brochure". “
You can do this: Go to Wilderness home page http://www.wilderness-safaris.com/
Click Safaris
Click Discover-Our Camps at the bottom of the big camps picture
Click “About our Camps”
Click on Premier or Classic or whatever type
Click Discover (type of) camp
Click About (type of camp)
Then on the right is an alphabetical listing of camps in that paw category or in other categories.

I’ve stayed at a variety of paw levels of Wilderness camps and all were fantastic. I’ve never stayed at a bad safari property, though.

“Your 2 concerns” I don’t know about the cancellations. I am sure you stay with the same people the entire trip.

“Any opinions on whether I'll be disappointed with a visit that excludes the Okavango and Kalahari?”
You’d be disappointed missing the Okavango, I believe. The Kalahari appeals to those most interested in the desert and would not have that much wildlife in June. But you’d have a good chance of seeing the meerkats. In August (even less favorable wildlife conditions than June) I enjoyed it very much. Most Botswana trips probably don’t go to the Kalahari but almost all go to the delta.

“Will a full week along the Zambezi mean lots of river trips and not good accessibility to the critters?”
You can see a lot of wildlife from the river. You’d also probably be doing driving and walks on land. I’d check into this. For photography, a vehicle usually works best.

“BTW I do understand that I should plan to return someday, so the Okavango is not gone forever. It just seems a shame (and strange) to be so close at such a good time of year, only to skip it.”
My thoughts exactly, but if you go for a month, you could do a group trip that omits it and then add it. Flying to a camp in the delta as a solo is very easy and commonplace. Breakaway is what ShayTay called it.

“As to OAT, I'm still trying to wrap my head around their being so much cheaper.” All their trips are less expensive, not just Africa. OAT will tell you their accommodations, which I recall are very good and would serve the same food to the OAT travelers as anyone else. They have the advantage of volume business. They also send more people at one crack than some other group trips. The # in the departure is not so crucial, but the # of people IN YOUR VEHICLE is key.

Be sure you have your own window seat or if it is an open vehicle (as is common in Southern Africa) don’t get stuck in the middle.

Here are some links from those who have actually traveled with OAT:

Actually gone—Ultimate safari in Southern Africa
http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...p;tid=35085119

actually gone—East Africa by Ann NYC
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34897294 report

http://www.winkflash.com/photo/publi...?u=ajennerjahn pics

“Quality of cultural visits” Yes, check.

“A/C” As ShayTay says there would likely be no A/C nor would you need it.