botswana camps

Old Oct 28th, 2006, 10:06 AM
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botswana camps

Hi,
After much research, I'm finaly getting somewhat of a sense of the different areas in Botswana. This is not easy. I'm looking for a bit of diversity but do want to see:

Dogs, Leopards, more cats, all the usuals such as elephants, zebras etc. and unusual animals if possible

Activities:
land safari, water, hiking and cultural tribal visits (I may be able to do this in Zimb. or the desert)

Want:
Good guiding and (tracking if you think it's nec.), attractive locations with views when possible (game viewing rules though) Fairly rustic smallish camps. Would love to sleep in a hide. Wildlife visits at camp are a plus.

I may add Zimb. and Mozembique at the end and also a trip to the desert or pans.

So far I've come up with a few camps and need advice and preference;
The below areas seem to be (relatively) affordable and I would hope to stay 4 days at each. Can you tell me if you been to any of the below and comment or help me choose:

Chitabe, Chitabe trails or Sandibe

Vumbura or little Vumbura, Kaporata (less costly) or Kwara camp

Selinda, Zibadianja or Lebala (kinda costly but will pay if good).

Then perhaps to the falls and onward to Zimb.

Any and all help is appreciated.
Thanks;
Sherry

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Old Oct 28th, 2006, 01:20 PM
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We certainly think alike!

Chitabe-4 nights that turned into 8 in Aug 2005, so that tells you I was happy there.

Vumbura-Little is less expensive than plains and you get your water activites just boating to and from camp, plus any additional time you want on the water.
Returned from here this past August.

Zib-the smallest at 3 tents and the most rustic of those listed. Returned from here this past August.

You picked what I would pick for your wildlife goals. My reports are in the Southern Africa Index for more detail.

If you wanted these ranked, then only Vumbura would give you water activities along with your game. I would tie Zib and Chitabe for game based on my one stay at each. For small & rustic in a good sense, Zib wins by a nose, though Chitabe had wonderful hospitality and atmosphere. But 3 tents at Zib is clearly smaller than 8 tents or so at Chitabe. Plus Zib had such a cool waterhole.

The only change I'd consider would knock out your water activities, which you indicated you want. That change might be Duba Plains instead of Vumbura.

For the cultural visits, Vumbura has a program called "local guest host" or something like that where a local person accompanies you on game drives. That is far short of a tribal visit, but a nice touch.

If you tacked on San or Jack's and spent time with the bushmen in the desert--you mentioned desert--you could have a fabulous cultural visit.

How great you are going back.
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Old Oct 28th, 2006, 01:54 PM
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Hi Lynn,
I wasn't sure anyone was around on this horribly rainy/windy day. Only thing one can do is plan African trips - Is it rainy in Wisc?
Anyhow, Like minds, eh? I'm glad and flattered.

I choose 4 nights b/c a few of the camps seem to offer discounts and the thought of sclepping every couple days doesn't appeal.

So now if I may pick your brain;
why Zib. over Selinda or Kwando? Do you think it's nec. to have a tracker?

Why Duba over Vumbura?

Why knock out the water activities - although, eyes on Africa has a very inexpensive mobile canoe trip to Zimbabwe that looks like a nice end add on - this could count as part of my water excursion need. I do want to get out of the vehicle once and while to hike or get chased by a buffalo to keep the blood flowing.
Now as i probably should have done first, I'll check your report.
Who did you book with btw.
Thanks;
Sherry
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Old Oct 28th, 2006, 02:03 PM
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Lynn forgot to mention (though it is in her trip report) that you can combine Zibalianja (also spelled Zibadianja) with a good walking experience-- a night or two at a trails camp called Tshwene. You can just about sleep under the stars at the trails camp...you'll find camp descriptions at linyanti.com . I've just noticed your later question to Lynn...her reasons may be different, but I would choose Zib over Selinda because it is so much smaller and intimate a camp. But they cover the same game drive areas and offer the same walking activity with armed guide and tracker.

John
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Old Oct 28th, 2006, 02:12 PM
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Zib over Selinda (the camp) because I met someone who had a bad experience at Selinda with a lazy--for lack of a better word--guide. Also Selinda is fancier and you stated you wanted rustic. I like rustic too. However I feel like the use of the word rustic needs an asterisk here. Zib is a lovely camp with every amenity so I shouldn't overdo the rustic thing.

Oh yes, the hide--Chitabe has that. I was told they pioneered the idea at least for Wilderness. I stayed one night and it was fantastic.

The only reason I do not recommend Kwando is I have no personal experience there. (I must rectify that omission some day!) I think the Kwando camps would make for a super itinerary.

I've used a tracker only once. I recall crediting that tracker for one or two of three serval sightings in Kafue in Zambia. So he was productive. Since I've rarely used a tracker, I don't find it essential.

I just found Duba Plains to be the most exciting place ever, so thought I'd give it plug. But I think a private guide is the way to go there if you wish to see lion-buffalo interactions that often take place outside of normal game drive times. So then that adds more cost and makes it less comparable with the other camps. Don't mean to downplay Vumbura at all.

I've looked at the inexpensive Wilderness Zimbabwe mobile safari and agree it would be great. I did an inexpensive Wilderness Botswana mobile and was very happy with it.

Booked those 2 Botswana trips with Africa Adventure in Ft. Lauderdale FL after lots of comparisons both in and out of Africa.

Not raining here.
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Old Oct 28th, 2006, 03:26 PM
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Thanks John and Lynn - good info.
Do you think the 3 areas that I picked are diverse enough and different from each other?

Is Duba plains worth it if I can't afford a private guide? How much xtra is the guide btw.

How exactly does walking/staying to/at hide work i.e. do you hike in for 1 night and continue walking to another location in the morning? How about my favorite topic - bathroom facilities??? Would you rec. one hide or walking trail over another?
Loved your report btw, Lynn - our goals are indeed similar. See my comments. AA must have put a private itinerary together for you. Do you only deal with Allison there? as you know, she frightens me!
Thanks;
Sherry
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Old Oct 28th, 2006, 03:33 PM
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Maybe I missed it in you post, but did you say what time of year you are going?

Kwando offers discounts in the low season if you stay 8 nights at any 2-3 of their camps.
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Old Oct 28th, 2006, 04:11 PM
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probably the end of July into August
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Old Oct 28th, 2006, 07:30 PM
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Sherry,

As you probably already have read my Kwando experiences....it honestly, is very high on my list and a fantastic game drive experience. I have read some dramatic trip reports from people who stayed at their camps for a night or two and slam them....but, there are tons of regulars (including on these boards) who have had great experiences...

For my own trip next year (June) i am doing a long-stay combining Zibalianja and Lebala. I dont have time to do any delta camps on this particular trip....

Based on your requirements mentioned, any of the following camps would make a fine choice......

Chitabe/chitabe trails/duba plains/zibalianja/lebala/lagoon/little kwara/Duma Tau/Little Vumbura/Kwara

But, in honesty...you really need to spend time in order to maximize your sightings instead of shuttling around all over the place.....

What is the total duration of your trip?

Hari
 
Old Oct 28th, 2006, 07:33 PM
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Time of year is a key component and late July-Aug is a really good time.

Chitabe, Vumbura, Selinda are quite diverse. With late July and Aug, then Chitabe and Selinda offer decent odds of denning dogs.

Duba: I went in early Aug and part of the game area was inaccessible due to water levels. This was normal and accessibility would return in late Aug to early Sept. If the lions had gone to those inaccessible areas, I would not have seen them. I was lucky that the Tsaro pride stuck around where it was easy to see them every day. It is possible that they could move to the region known as Paradise and you can't get to Paradise in late July. I asked how long the lions are out of view when they disappear to these areas and was told a couple of days and that seemed reasonable. So that adds another element
of risk to Duba in late July, early Aug.

Johan, when he was participating here, made these same comments. His return trip was October. My return trip, if I'm lucky enough to have one, will be October. That eliminates the risk of accessibility, but of course does not eliminate all the other risks of good wildlife viewing. A private guide at Duba was $400 extra--more than other places due to the small camp.

Is it worth it? Yes, but you need some luck in late July-Aug. Less luck in Sept.-Oct. I will not return to Duba without a private guide at any time of year. I will not request a private guide for the majority of my African travels due to cost.

Overnight Hides--how they work depends on where and how you set it up. I did only 1 night at both Chitabe and Selinda. Chitabe was preplanned and Selinda was spur of the moment upon arrival. You can do more nights if you want. One was fine for me.

Chitabe--I walked there, then got a night drive and drove out. Chitabe was a mattress with netting on a platform. Very out in the open. Bathroom was a short walk away on a path that stayed lit by lanterns all night. A drop toilet and a shower. A bed pan was provided as well for the night.

Selinda--I was driven there, did a pm walk and walked out. Selinda was a regular tent on a raised platform--much more of a tent than a hide. Bathroom was regular flusher at the foot of the stairs. Shower was a ways away and highlight of the experience.

I liked Chitabe a bit better due to its openness, but either is great. The Selinda Trails is set up for several nights and I deviated with my one night. Chitabe is often 1 night but they can do more.

I have not dealt with Alison in a long time but found her to be charming way back when. It is funny the different perspectives. I deal with Mark since that who I started with a long time ago. Also Milissa. This was a private trip but only Duba was a private vehcile. Most Botswana itineraries where you pick your camps are private trips.


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Old Oct 28th, 2006, 07:37 PM
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Going back to Lynn's tracker comment....there genuinely is a lot of work to track the spoor off-road and locate the animals...

Yes, lots of camps across Africa dont have a tracker. But, i credit the camps that do use them- it not only provides a great game drive experience, but also creates more jobs for the locals....

I have on a couple of occassions walked gotten off the truck to walk with the tracker following the spoor. It was a fascinating mini-walk. Another ocassion, they had to do a lot of tracking on foot, so my cousin drove the truck to keep pace and minimize lost time (sun was going down quick)....

That said, i have had some fantastic sightings and experiences even at camps that dont use the trackers....different experiences both. In addition to tracking spoor, they listen to the sounds of the bush for give-away signs....the guide just does the talking and keep you entertained.....

Hari
 
Old Oct 28th, 2006, 10:57 PM
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Sherry,

I can't add much to what Lynn has told you about diversity, etc.

The walk to Tshwene trails camp from Zibalianja, if you choose to do it that way, is a morning affair of about 10 kilometres. This is followed by pretty much the same brunch/siesta practice served up by most safari camps, then a late afternoon walk in the vicinity of the trails camp. If you chose to stay at Selinda main camp instead of Zib, your walk would probably be to Mokoba trails camp, a similar distance. If you chose their standard walk, you would walk between Selinda, Mokoba, Tshwene and Zib (or the reverse of that)-- spending two nights on the trail, one at each of the trails camps. I've done that three-day thing, and found it a wonderful experience. The trails camps have been upgraded since then and everything is a bit fancier than I remember.

Zib must be one of the very best, or consistent, places for wild dogs. A big pack often dens close to the camp and frequently uses that 'cool' waterhole in front of the camp. You would be unlucky not to see the pack with pups at the den from early August (if the den's location is known) and hunting with the pups in tow some time later.

John
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Old Oct 29th, 2006, 04:12 AM
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Thanks, your getting me very excited.

Hari, I was thinking 4 days at each to pick up discounts and hoping this would be enough time at 3 and possible 4 locations if I do a desert extension.

Lynn, When you refer to Selinda are you speaking of the Selinda camp or the general area? I wonder if perhaps Mark would take me under his wing. Hopefully, I won't get outed first from these threads. Would it be an extra 400. pp for the private vehicle or 400. total?

John, Thanks for the details - you can't get this kind of info. from the books. Do you think 4 days would be enough at Zib.? Place sounds like heaven.

It looks like Chitabe and Zib are in. Any more comments on Little Vumbura versus Duba, Kwara or Kaporata?
Best;
Sherry
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Old Oct 29th, 2006, 04:16 AM
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p.s. are all these above mentioned places wide open enough to keep up with dogs. Can you off road? My books say Selinda is excellent would that include Zib.?
What happened to Johan, btw?
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Old Oct 29th, 2006, 04:38 AM
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Hi Sherry,

Yes.....you can off-road at all those locations. Selinda and Zib are in the same concession (selinda), so you may be able to find the dogs if they are in the area....

Hari
 
Old Oct 29th, 2006, 04:46 AM
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The Chitabe and Selinda areas had expanses that were open. Linyanti did as well but I think there were a few more wooded parts. Of course it all depends on where the animals are located. Each of these does have mopane forests and thick brush areas. When it is cold and/or windy the animals spend more time in those protected areas. The winds do not usually start until mid-August. There were some very gusty days on my last mid-Aug trip.

We did off road driving in Chitabe and Selinda. Much of the Selinda off road driving was to follow the dogs one morning. Don't remember off or on road when I was at Duma Tau in Linyanti, but never recall feeling hindered.

Zib is in the Selinda reserve.

Johan decided not to post here anymore which is too bad.

I'd like to do more drives with trackers. More eyes and expertise is always better in the bush.

Keep us posted, Sherry, on your promising itinerary.
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Old Oct 29th, 2006, 11:31 AM
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Sherry,

One of the main differences between Duba and Little Vumbura is that the game is far more varied at Little Vumbura. And it's one of the most reliable places to see the sable antelope.

At Duba, you won't see impala, giraffe and zebra. Actually, it's mainly about lion and buffalo (one of the best places in Africa to see a kill happening during daytime). It also has a good track record for aardwolf. Your driving routes will be limited in both camps that time of year (unless the rainy season has been very poor). But you will be most affected by it in Duba.

Which camps or areas would I prefer that time of year:

- Moremi Game Reserve (especially near North gate) (camping would be advisable here);
- Savuti camp (Linyanti)/Selinda-Zibalianja (Selinda) ;
- Chitabe/Chitabe trails

From my own experience Moremi Game Reserve although a national park has superior gameviewing compared to most of the camps mentioned here. The only downsides you got there are the following:no night drives or off-road driving. (Unless you do game drives in the Khwai area (out of the national park)

I wouldn't consider Duba that time of year because you need a long stay to have a very good chance to see a kill (or you must be lucky). Actually even now, you can't reach Paradise Island (territory of the Skimmer pride)

A word about Kwando:

At Kwando (Lebala), your chances of seeing the dogs are less that time of year than at Savuti/Zibalianja-Selinda because they usually don't den there (hyena are quite dominant there). On the other hand, is one of the better places to see interaction between hyenas and lions.

And they use a tracker, which can make a big difference. (they are very serious about it)

A private vehicle is only to consider if you like travelling on your own or you have a particular intrest (f.e. birding/photography).

If you want to do water activities, I would recommend to opt for an extension at the Lower Zambezi.

Hope this helps

 
Old Oct 29th, 2006, 12:05 PM
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Sherry:
I have no advice of course--but wanted to say thank you for the thread. I'll be tracking your research and trip--what year are you thinking?
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Old Oct 29th, 2006, 12:57 PM
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Oh the dilemmas and pile of books are mounting.

Hi Bat - are you going to Botswana,
I'm probably too late for 07 avail. as I got a late start due to illness and waiting for variances etc. for some property that I'm working on. So 07 if not too late, or 08- which sounds horribly far off. By then, I should have some good miles saved up.
I will surely drive you all insane by then, with my constant barage of questions.

Lynn and skimmer - many thanks;
Duba does sound like such a cool option and I could go later in the season, if that wouldn't interfere with the other options. Plus I don't think I'd like temps. upwards of 100 F with humidity if going too late in the season or if it means missing the dogs.

I would also love to see sable and have more of a chance at those elusive pups though. I'm assuming that with the close proximy to Mombo there may be some good spillage of good sightings if one stays in Little Vumbura. Why does Mombo seem to have such productive sightings - is it simply the terrain? Will the rhinos eventually be able to roam out of the concession?
Also, how easy is it to 4x4 out of L. Vumbura? Do the floods hinder any activities?

Question:
Does one generally see as much productive wildlife sightings when walking?
I'm assuming that the mokuru rides are more for the beauty of nature with an animal sighting as an additional bonus, no?
Many thanks;
Sherry
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Old Oct 29th, 2006, 01:57 PM
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Sherry,

"Does one generally see as much productive wildlife sightings when walking?
I'm assuming that the mokuru rides are more for the beauty of nature with an animal sighting as an additional bonus, no?"

Sherry,

The short answers are 1) no; 2) yes.

It doesn't mean you can't have sudden, up-close and exciting sightings when walking, but most will be at a distance. The guides, for example, will be very wary of elephant breeding herds and will not knowingly go anywhere near as close as they would in a vehicle; and lions, as another example, are likely to run away if they see you first. A very interesting and amusing experience: we were in a vehicle just a few metres from a male lion which was munching on an impala in a patch of tall grass. We couldn't see the lion, but we could hear him. We'd found him only because three cheetahs from whom he'd stolen the kill were metaphorically licking their wounds nearby. Our presence didn't bother the lion, but suddenly, a group of walkers appeared about 200 metres away and started to cross open ground. The lion stuck his head up out of the grass, took one look at the walkers, and ran off in the opposite direction as fast as he could. I've never seen a male lion run so quickly.

A great deal of the Selinda territory is flat and open, and we've followed dogs quite easily on a couple of occasions until nightfall.

For an idea of the kinds of activities and sightings that are possible at Mombo and Xigera (the delta, but some years ago), and Selinda, Zibalianja and Kwando in more recent years, take a look at www.afrigalah.com . The relevant pages are "Okavango Delta"; and a series of six pages on Selinda and Kwando starting with "Introducing Linyanti", ranging over the different kinds of wildlife and finishing with "Birds of Selinda". There are also accounts of walking safari experiences on the Zimbabwe page.

John






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