morgiane

hello again,

first of all, a huge thank you to all of you who have been putting up with my confusion about when to go on this trip. I think we're starting to have things a bit clearer. I just found a post from someone from Feb. who was planning a july 2007 safari as well who had already encountered full places (!), so i thought we'd better get started!

Anyway, i've drafted up a bunch of our thoughts for the honeymoon trip, and i was interested in any thoughts or feedback you might have. Any input is appreciated, and thank you much in advance!

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HONEYMOON TRIP
- first 2 weeks of july 2007
- 15 days including travel from the states (so probably 11-12 days on ground?)
- private safari for 2
- a night drive if possible
- a balloon safari if possible
- a maasai village visit, towards end if possible
- mid-range accomodations, with some nights nicer if budget allows (this is our honeymoon, after all! )
- how many days do we need to allow for travel? 2 on either end? We are coming from NYC.
- 8-9 days safari, 3 days zanzibar beach (for snorkeling & relaxation - maybe matemwe?) (is it possible to just spend a couple hours wandering around stone town (or tour) on the way to beach, or do we need a night there?)
- for safari - from what we hear, seems like best places to visit in july are: northern serengeti, central serengeti, tarangire, & ngorongoro? open to your suggestions however - very interested in "big cats".

We are thinking (and if you have advice on order (or accomodations), please comment):
- 2 days northern serengeti (perhaps migration camp, honeymoon suite?)
- 2 days central serengeti, seronera area
- 2 days tarangire
- 2? days ngorongoro
(- should we visit lake manyara?)
- 3 days zanzibar (perhaps matemwe bungalows - for snorkeling?) we would like to visit stone town (for a few hours, maybe a tour) but spend most of the time on the beach.
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Is this enough info to give to tour operators to get a quote? Or do i need to figure out all the places to stay, transportation between, etc?

on a side note, I am embarrased to say that i actually thought we would be able to stay in mid-range plus some splurge places and still keep under $5000 per person *including* airfare ... HAHAHAHA... so now i am unclear on budget... but it is our honeymoon and the trip is very important to us so we will make it happen somehow. What do you think would be reasonable for budget pp without airfare? A lot mentioned 400 pp /night...so maybe $4500?

thanks again!

Patty

I think you need to allow one night in each direction for travel. If you plan to take the KLM flight into JRO, you would leave NY in the evening and get into Kilimanjaro airport the evening of the following day. You would also need to spend your first night in the Kili/Arusha area. On the return, you would leave JRO in the late evening and arrive in NY the following day.

KLM is the only European carrier that flies directly into JRO in northern Tanzania. Another possible option would be to transit via Nairobi which is served by KLM, Kenya Airways, BA, Emirates, SN Brussels, SWISS, Ethiopian, among others. You can check schedules on each carrier's website to see which works best (some of the ones I listed don't offer daily service).

My preference is to contact operators for a quote after I've picked a few specific accomodations. You can find photos and rack rates at www.go-safari.com - see what appeals to you.

$4500 is reasonable as long as you can resist too many splurges

jasher

Hello Morgiane,

Congratulations on your upcoming wedding -- it sounds like you'll have a great honeymoon?

With 15 days including travel to/from the US, you are looking at about 11-12 days on the ground in Africa.

I've looked your itinerary over, and IMO you have too many two-night stays to really experience each of the areas you're visiting. I'd recommend doing fewer parks and spending more time in each area. For instance, instead of doing 2 days at 2 stationary camps in the Serengeti, you could spend 4 days with Nomad or CCA's mobile camps, which will move with the migration and give you an excellent chance of seeing it. CCA's mobile camp (Tanzania Under Canvas) is the most luxurious mobile option and would make a great splurge.

Spending one night at the Crater is enough for most people -- and spending that night at Crater Lodge would make it a very memorable one.

I wouldn't try to cram both Lake Manyara and Tarangire into your itinerary unless you were willing to forego some time in Zanzibar. Of the two, I would recommend Tarangire, and specifically Nomad's new Tarangire camp, with its unique Bedouin tents.

So your itinerary might look something like this:

Tarangire x3 - Nomad Tarangire
Serengeti x4 - CCA Tanzania under Canvas
Ngorongoro x1 or 2 - Crater Lodge
Zanzibar x2 or 3

Whether you spend more time at the Crater or in Zanzibar depends on whether you prefer beach time to safari -- personally I would pick the Crater, but others would prefer the beach.

You have more than enough information for a good agent to work up a quote for you.

Cheers,
Julian

Leely

From NYC airfares for this June/July, when I was checking, were running about $1700. I never seem to get the airfare deals that others are always going on about--you all know who you are > . So if you overestimate to be on the safe side and say 1800pp for int'l air, that leaves you with 3200 pp iof you're budgeting 5k pp. Totally doable if you're flexible and are willing to "save" while on Zanzibar...or somewhere.

Who are you working with? I'd pick accommodations and send out an itinerary to a couple or three operators.

If I were you, I'd bag the balloon. That's a lot of $$. I know, I know, it's your honeymoon...I'm just not big on balloon rides. I'd rather stay an extra night!

aby

Julian -
do you think they can get the migration on (tricky) July ?

Anybody has seen migration in Serengeti at this time ?

jasher

Hello Aby,

July is tricky, because it's when the migration is on the move between the Mara and the Serengeti. Going in June would increase their chances of seeing it in Tanzania.

If they did catch the migration, it would most likely be up near Grumeti.

The uncertainty is why I suggested the semi-mobile camps -- these will definitely offer a better chance of seeing it than permanent lodges which may be in the wrong place.

Cheers,
Julian

morgiane

thanks, everyone!

patty - thank you for all the info about travel time, that's very helpful. I will definitely check out the accomodation on the the go-safari site -- that site is fantastic. I went there on bat's suggestion & that's where i saw eben's recommended areas to visit for the migration. What fantastic stuff! for the overnight in kili/arusha, do you have any recommendations?

jasher - thank you! we are certainly hoping so We would love to spend more time in each place - in fact we could add 2 more days for the

morgiane

oops got a little excited & hit the reply button...

as i was saying...
We would love to spend more time in each place - in fact we could add 2 more days for the safari, but i am thinking that could just put us over the edge financially. I guess the toss-up is more days, less nice accomodations, vs. less days and better accomodations. If you folks have thoughts on which is better, please let me know!

As far as the mobile camps (which i'm not really sure we could afford, but will look at), are those still options if you are working with an outside operator? We were planning on having one guide for the whole trip (until zanzibar of course).

Leely - $1800...yowsers ah the pain...but well worth it, it seems from everyone's trip reports!

we are not working with anyone specifically at the moment - but are definitely going to be getting a quote from Roy Safaris. They've been recommended by many and seem to have really great guides so i am hopeful that they will be able to give a good quote. I think we will also check Good Earth, and predators? And if you guys have other recommendations i am all ears.

As far as the balloon ride...i know i know, it's crazy expensive, and might be a little silly...but i think it would be quite an experience, right?

Aby - i know july is a dicey for the migration. we would love to see it, but will be okay if we don't - we are most interested in lions , other predators, and just wildlife in general. It seemed like early july gave us the *chance* to maybe see the migration up north...but then have peak times in tarangire & also i think zanzibar will be less humid & nicer than in june? also heard that predators are easier to see in the dry season...is that true?

thanks!

jasher

Hello Morgiane,

Ideally, you'd have a longer AND higher quality trip... but given the choice between higher quality/shorter trip and lower quality/longer trip I've always chosen a shorter but higher quality trip -- this is your honeymoon, and if there's one trip of your life where you should splurge, this is it!

I know you've been focussing your research on East Africa, but if the migration isn't a focus and predator viewing is, I'd suggest seriously considering Southern Africa -- the predator viewing in Botswana, South Africa, and Zambia is incredible, and since you can drive off-road (unlike in the majority of East African parks) you can get much closer to the animals. Many reserves are private and thus not crowded with tourists. Zambia would offer the opportunity for walking safaris and river safaris as well as game drives, which might make a nice contrast to the rest of your trip.

Internal flights are relatively inexpensive (particularly in South Africa), so you could spend more time on safari and less time on the road.

Another plus from a budget standpoint would be that June and July are low season in South Africa, whereas they are high season in most other safari countries. June is shoulder season for many camps in Botswana.

A safari in South Africa or Zambia (or a mobile safari in Botswana) could easily be combined with some beach time in South Africa or Mozambique, which will be much less humid than Zanzibar; alternatively, you could do your post-safari relaxation in Victoria Falls or Cape Town.

If you were to do Southern Africa, I'd recommend something along these lines for a 14-day trip focused on predator viewing:

Sabi Sands x4 (Exeter or Kirkman's -- or Londolozi for a splurge)
Northern Private Reserves x2 (Honeyguides Tented Camp or Ngala Tented Camp)
Phinda x4 (Forest Lodge)
Mozambique x3

The Sabi Sands is the best game-viewing region in South Africa, and is renowned for its predator sightings (particularly the elusive leopard).

http://www.ccafrica.com/reserve-1-id-2-21

http://www.londolozi.com

The Northern Private Reserves (Timbavati, Manyeleti et al) offer excellent game viewing and are wilder in feeling than the Sabi Sands. Staying under canvas in the bush is an experience not to be missed!

http://www.ngala.co.za/

http://www.honeyguidecamp.com/

Phinda is a unique reserve incorporating seven different ecosystems. There is a huge amount to see and do here - hence the longer stay.

http://www.phinda.com

In Mozambique, there is a huge range of options. Quilalea and Marlin Lodge are small, intimate places offering barefoot luxury.

http://www.quilalea.com/

http://www.marlinlodge.co.za/

I'm not clear on what your budget is -- there is a wide range of accommodation options in South Africa which can accommodate virtually any budget range. I've listed accommodations which are comparable in price to the options I listed for Tanzania.

A lot of people's East Africa trips are done with a single driver-guide. However, someone who is based in a particular area will know it much better than someone who spends most of their time on the road going from park to park. This could be particularly helpful in finding predators, as a locally based guide would know the territories of the local lion prides and leopards. Camps in Southern Africa use locally based guides.

Just some food for thought...

Cheers,
Julian

Patty

I'd vote for a longer safari and mixing a few splurge places with a couple of more reasonable properties.

There are several reports from posters who have used Roys (and other Tanzania ground operators) in the East Africa index thread - http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34725679

Patty

As I recall, Lisa was able to put together a very reasonably priced safari in Tanzania mixing higher end and mid-range accomodations so you might want to check that one out.

morgiane

you guys are so helpful, i really appreciate all the input!

this is what i am thinking for a possible itinerary to send for price quotes...i think we *are* going to add 2 days to our itinerary, woohoo! i think we are also going to strike the need for a night drive, since it seems like most of the places we would like to stay are inside parks and don't allow that. so one question would be, do you think the night drive is worth adding a 1 night stay aside from the places below so that we can have one?

so here is what we are thinking...please feel free to advise, point out any crazy things (like we are not totally sure about driving times, maybe this is not a good route), and would also love input on the extra days - where to put them.

oh and Patty - thank you so much for directing me to lisa's trip...I actually got a LOT of ideas from her report!!

thank you all!

July 2007 (maybe leave NYC on July 6 evening? I am going to schedule to spend my birthday in Tanzania )
- 1 night Kia Lodge near kilmanjaro airport
- fly into Lobo airstrip early next morning?
- 2 nights Migration Camp
- 2 nights Serengeti Serena Lodge (balloon safari one morning)
- 2 nights Ngorongoro Serena Lodge
- 2 nights Tarangire Swala Camp
- fly from arusha to zanzibar, little time in stone town if possible before go to matemwe
- 3 nights Matemwe Bungalows

So...2 extra nights...I was thinking adding on 1 night to swala, and then 1 to either serengeti serena or migration camp? Any thoughts on this? We could even maybe stay only 1 night in Ngorongoro as i think someone might have mentioned...and add a third day to each other one. OR do the night drive thing elsewhere at some point like i mentioned earlier.

Once I have this stuff settled I am going to send off for price quotes. Thank you guys so much for your continued help!

santharamhari

Morgiane,

Honestly, you are better off adding another day to the Serengeti (it is a huuuuuuge place) and cut down ngorongoro to one night. The crater is just one small place, where a million jeeps surround a sighting. Yes, it is a spectacular place, but, serengeti is far more desirable in terms of game viewing/sightings quality!!! Besides, regardless of how many nights you spend in the crater you are going to do the same game drive route.

Hari

morgiane

thanks hari! so do you think i should do:

- 1 night Kia Lodge
(flight to lobo)
- 3 nights Migration Camp
- 3 nights Serengeti Serena
- 1 night Ngorongoro Serena
- 3 nights Tarangire Swala
(flight to zan)
- 3 nights Matemwe Bungalows

questions:
- Is 10 nights too long to be on safari? (one tour operator recommended 7 to 9 days for safari)

- Is 3 nights too long to be in one place on safari?

- Which do you think makes more sense - taking the trip in the order above, or backwards: from tarangire to sernegeti then maybe flying from lobo to zanzibar somehow? I thought this original way would be best for the possibility of the migration in the serengeti, but I'm not sure...?

jules39

Julian I had a quick look through Roccos report that you mentioned and I could only see where he was not happy with the vehicle from ATR. NOT Roys?? Don't know if I totally missed that but can you qualify? I checked out Roys somewhat last year when we were there because I had heard of them and I saw no issues with the vehicles I saw or from their passengers. I was happy enough that we have booked to go back to Tanz with them.
Morgiane I do not think 10 nights is too long on safari at all nor do I think 3 nights in one place is too much. I think the extra nights give you more of a chance to get into the flow of the place. But that is a personal choice. Whatever you decide I am sure you are going to have a fantastic trip!
Happy & safe travels & congrats on your marriage.
J

bat

Hi morgiane:

If you book KLM and want to end in Zanzibar, you can book an "open jaw" ticket so that you arrive at Kili (JRO) for the start of your safari and then fly out of Dar at the end. Dar is a short (20 minute)flight from Zbar. This means you can stay at your beach place until 3pm or so before a late afternoon flight. [Or you could leave the beach earlier to stop in Stonetown for a tour on your way to the airport.]

The KLM departure flight originates in Arusha and then stops to pick up passengers in Dar before heading out to Amsterdam. So if you are going to end in Zanzibar this is better--you avoid a much earlier departure from Zanzibar on your last day, a more expensive plane ticket and longer hot flight back to Arusha.

If you decide on Matemwe Bungalows I would do the Stonetown tour either on your day of arrival (depending on flight arrival time)or day of departure. Stonetown is basically on the way to/from the airport and Matemwe (which is more than an hour away). So with a 3 night stay, I would not drive out to Matemwe and drive back to Stonetown the very next day nor day 3--my final full day of honeymoon/vacation. You will be able to book a combined airport/hotel transfer and Stonetown tour.

My other comment re 1 night at the crater is this--I understand why a number of people recommend only one night-BUT before doing that I would find out what time you depart the crater from a morning drive--the half day issue is still not clear to me AND how long is the drive to Swala (which is deep inside Tarangire) because it could be a very long day in the car and you should at least be aware of it.

1 nighters are a pain. They might be OK and useful when they are merely "pit stops" on the way from point A to point B to break up a drive. That is NOT the case at the crater--it is more than a pit stop.

My final comment is that we found the view of the crater from the rim hotels to be very beautiful. Two late afternoons of sipping drinks and staring at the view were not too much.

So a 2 night scenario (even with only 1 crater drive) could be: game drive through the serengeti to the crater for an afternoon arrival with enough time to enjoy your crater view from your room/hotel. Get up super early the next morning to be in the crater--then instead of coming out of the crater and having a long drive to your next stop--you could spend another enjoyable late afternoon staring at the crater view from your hotel. Then get up reasonably early the next day for the drive to Swala. Seems more relaxing to me.

On the other hand if you are forced out of the crater at noon and/or the drive to Swala is not as long as I think it is--you might want to push on to get there so that you have 3 nights.

cwn

bat, You stated my plan for the crater to a "T"! I think we are looking forward to the Lodge/Camp as much as we are actually seeing the animals. I know that probably sounds terrible but...

morgiane, Your honeymoon plans sound wonderful, ahhh.. to be young again. Ours are for our 42 aniversity trip.

What a great way to begin a marriage - Good Luck!

bat

cwn:
It doesn't sound terrible to me. Even if it is more landscape viewing than animal viewing--the landscape is remarkable on its own merit. You can't see that caldera anywhere else in the world--and from the rim, the vehicles are mostly gone or on their way out in the late afternoon--so they aren't a problem.

Everyone is different--some people don't want a single missed moment of game driving--others want some "down time." When your "down time" is staring at the stunning African landscape it seems like an integral part of a safari to me.

jasher

Hi Jules39,

Sorry -- I made a mistake about Roy's. It was MKSC that he wasn't happy with. I'm sure you'll have a good trip!

Cheers,
Julian

lovetodiscover

Morgiane to follow on to bat's comments - being this is your Honeymoon, you might like an extra day to relax at the crater or trade that off for a stay with rose petals, fresh drawn bath and a stay at the Crater Lodge. I would not normally recommend the splurge - but it is a special event that come oh so seldom.
I could argue that the other way for value. You have made a great choice in Swala and have been told it is "romantic".