2 people killed in Hwange
Mar 25th, 2007, 09:03 PM
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2 people killed in Hwange
Sadly 2 tourist were killed on Saturday morning while doing a game walk at The Hide in Zimbabwe.The guide is stable but they have suspended all game walks till further notice.
Mar 25th, 2007, 09:17 PM
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To Whom It May Concern,
Agents, Associates, Friends of The Hide.
It is with deep regret that we inform you that two of The Hide Safari Camp's
guests were tragically killed on Saturday morning.
The guests were walking with a guide who is a qualified professional hunter
inside Hwange National Park. During the walk at approximately 10:45 am on
Saturday the 24th of March 2007, the group was approached by a young
elephant bull in musth which charged them.
The guide was knocked over after discharging his rifle but he was unable to
stop the elephant. He is in hospital in a physically stable condition and
fortunately a third guest with the group was not physically harmed.
As a result of this tragic event, The Hide has suspended all walking in the
park from its list of activities until further notice. We have commenced a
full investigation into this incident so that we can piece together a better
understanding of the sequence of events.
The Directors, Management and Staff of The Hide Safari Camp have been
severely shocked by this incident. While we are trying to come to terms with
and fully comprehend this tragedy our foremost concerns and prayers are with
the families who have lost their loved ones.
The Directors, Management and Staff - The Hide Safari Camp
Agents, Associates, Friends of The Hide.
It is with deep regret that we inform you that two of The Hide Safari Camp's
guests were tragically killed on Saturday morning.
The guests were walking with a guide who is a qualified professional hunter
inside Hwange National Park. During the walk at approximately 10:45 am on
Saturday the 24th of March 2007, the group was approached by a young
elephant bull in musth which charged them.
The guide was knocked over after discharging his rifle but he was unable to
stop the elephant. He is in hospital in a physically stable condition and
fortunately a third guest with the group was not physically harmed.
As a result of this tragic event, The Hide has suspended all walking in the
park from its list of activities until further notice. We have commenced a
full investigation into this incident so that we can piece together a better
understanding of the sequence of events.
The Directors, Management and Staff of The Hide Safari Camp have been
severely shocked by this incident. While we are trying to come to terms with
and fully comprehend this tragedy our foremost concerns and prayers are with
the families who have lost their loved ones.
The Directors, Management and Staff - The Hide Safari Camp
Mar 25th, 2007, 09:24 PM
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Thanks for the info....
This is the second incident of tourist death on a game walk in recent months. The previous one in Masai Mara. There was a fodorite who was at the camp during the incident, but, he/she didnt furnish any details on return......
This is the second incident of tourist death on a game walk in recent months. The previous one in Masai Mara. There was a fodorite who was at the camp during the incident, but, he/she didnt furnish any details on return......
Mar 26th, 2007, 07:28 AM
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How tragic! But it brings something to home that I've been meaning to ask. I've noted in reading some of these trip reports and operators' descriptions of game walks, that in some places the guide is also the fellow carrying the gun.
On our game walks in the Lower Zambezi and South Luangwa of Zambia, we were told that it is park rules that an armed ranger accompany the guide and clients. That seems much safer to me. The ranger has one thing to do, watch for dangerous animal behavior, while the guide, working in concert with the ranger can focus on directing the clients.
I can only imamgine a ranger trying to focus on the menace in front of him while trying at the same time to see, in this case unsuccessfully, to see that his clients are in the safest place possible.
So, my question is for fodorites, what is the policy for game walks in countries other than Zambia? I will not give up game walks, because they provide a wonderfully unique perspective and feel to the safari experience, but whether or not there is a separate ranger with a gun will definitely influence my decision on where I go and whether I choose to go on a walk at that particular location.
Jim
On our game walks in the Lower Zambezi and South Luangwa of Zambia, we were told that it is park rules that an armed ranger accompany the guide and clients. That seems much safer to me. The ranger has one thing to do, watch for dangerous animal behavior, while the guide, working in concert with the ranger can focus on directing the clients.
I can only imamgine a ranger trying to focus on the menace in front of him while trying at the same time to see, in this case unsuccessfully, to see that his clients are in the safest place possible.
So, my question is for fodorites, what is the policy for game walks in countries other than Zambia? I will not give up game walks, because they provide a wonderfully unique perspective and feel to the safari experience, but whether or not there is a separate ranger with a gun will definitely influence my decision on where I go and whether I choose to go on a walk at that particular location.
Jim
Mar 26th, 2007, 07:45 AM
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I think guns give guests a false security. Two professionals with guns is better than one but I don't think people realize that once the animal reacts to a point where it is necessary to shoot it is probably too late and there is a very small window to make the correct shot that will stop it.
I was just reading about charging lions where the cat was hit twice with elephant size caliber and it kept coming taking shots from two more people in the heart and lungs -- didn't matter as the adrenaline sends a rush of oxygen to the brain and allows it to finish its intent for more time. This cat reached its target and killed him before dying.
Keeping appropriate distance and reading behavior early is the key to safety walking and very rarely something tragic is going to happen. It's so rare that I wouldn't discourage anyone from doing it but don't believe that you are perfectly safe because the escorts carry a gun.
I was just reading about charging lions where the cat was hit twice with elephant size caliber and it kept coming taking shots from two more people in the heart and lungs -- didn't matter as the adrenaline sends a rush of oxygen to the brain and allows it to finish its intent for more time. This cat reached its target and killed him before dying.
Keeping appropriate distance and reading behavior early is the key to safety walking and very rarely something tragic is going to happen. It's so rare that I wouldn't discourage anyone from doing it but don't believe that you are perfectly safe because the escorts carry a gun.
Mar 26th, 2007, 08:13 AM
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very sad and tragic and could happen to anyone. On my walks in Hwange it was just Foster the guide. At South Luangwa it was always with a guide and ranger, Lower Zambezi and Caprivi Strip just a guide.
Mar 26th, 2007, 08:27 AM
#11
From what I've heard, a young
elephant bull in musth is a very dangerious animal.
I'm very sad for the families of these people as well as for the other guests and camp staff. What a horror.
I also think carrying a gun is a false sense of security. Is the gun a large enough caliber to kill an elephant? Does the guide even know where to hit an elephant for a shot to be deadly?
I've done the walking safaris at MalaMala. The guide carries a gun and the tracker drives the vehicle a short distance behind the walkers. The walks are in wide open spaces where animals can't rush out of nearby brush and surprise you and you can't surprise them. I've always felt pretty safe walking there. Of course, you lose the true "bush" feel since there is a vehicle at a close distance behind you but it has to be safer.
elephant bull in musth is a very dangerious animal.
I'm very sad for the families of these people as well as for the other guests and camp staff. What a horror.
I also think carrying a gun is a false sense of security. Is the gun a large enough caliber to kill an elephant? Does the guide even know where to hit an elephant for a shot to be deadly?
I've done the walking safaris at MalaMala. The guide carries a gun and the tracker drives the vehicle a short distance behind the walkers. The walks are in wide open spaces where animals can't rush out of nearby brush and surprise you and you can't surprise them. I've always felt pretty safe walking there. Of course, you lose the true "bush" feel since there is a vehicle at a close distance behind you but it has to be safer.
Mar 26th, 2007, 09:46 AM
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There were 2 armed persons (the guide and a game ranger) present when I did the Napi trail in Kruger.
We encountered a few elephants but we stayed well away from them, compared to the rhinos we saw.
Good point about the guns/false sense of security issue, PredatorBiologist. One only needs to see that one video of the hunter trying to shoot that lion that just about grabbed him to know that having a gun isn't necessarily going to save you (especially if you're a poor shot).
I've also noticed quite a few pictures and Youtube-type videos of safari groups getting too close to elephants. While this Hwange incident sounds like a very tragic accident, I think there might be more than a few guides out there who push these animals too far to impress/adrenalize their guests.
We encountered a few elephants but we stayed well away from them, compared to the rhinos we saw.
Good point about the guns/false sense of security issue, PredatorBiologist. One only needs to see that one video of the hunter trying to shoot that lion that just about grabbed him to know that having a gun isn't necessarily going to save you (especially if you're a poor shot).
I've also noticed quite a few pictures and Youtube-type videos of safari groups getting too close to elephants. While this Hwange incident sounds like a very tragic accident, I think there might be more than a few guides out there who push these animals too far to impress/adrenalize their guests.
Mar 26th, 2007, 11:08 AM
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Clearly two sets of eyes are better than one. I know in Botswana the gun carrier has to qualify with the rifle. I don't know the details of the test or how often (if at all) they have to be retested. But I'm sure it's impossible to simulate what you might face out in the bush.
I've never gone on a game walk with less than two guides. Even so, I always am on alert and look around to try and see what animals are about and what they're doing. This will probably give me a few more seconds of realizing I'm about to be trampled, gored, or slashed.
I hope all know, going in, there are no guarantees and safety is a relative state. The websites need to show the Hippo teeth marks in the aluminum boat, as well as the beautiful sunsets.
I've never gone on a game walk with less than two guides. Even so, I always am on alert and look around to try and see what animals are about and what they're doing. This will probably give me a few more seconds of realizing I'm about to be trampled, gored, or slashed.
I hope all know, going in, there are no guarantees and safety is a relative state. The websites need to show the Hippo teeth marks in the aluminum boat, as well as the beautiful sunsets.
Mar 26th, 2007, 11:15 AM
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To me, it's not a false sense of security at all, but statistics: doing what is prudent in maximizing safety, but still experiencing the unique perspective and true wildness of being on foot or in a canoe. Of course, in spite of all precautions, there is the chance of something bad happening.
But, one can do things to improve the odds of a safe trip--or not.
Everyone has his or her own safety zone. But beyond that, there are, I am sure, different levels of competence and safety conciousness at different safari locations.
One part is park rules. Another, is camp policies and training. Yet another is the competence and experience of the guide and ranger.
One could stay in an enclosed van on paved roads and be safer than in an off-road, open vehicle. Or in a lodge with fences all around rather than in an open tented camp.
Or, just stay home. Because it is rather interesting that when I do a slide show, for the 90 percent who are so excited about what I show and tell them, there invariably is at least one that tells me that they could never go to Africa. Too wild. Too alien. Too scary. For them, they really are much better off at the fenced San Diego game park or watching Animal Planet.
I particularly remember Roelof, our wonderful guide at Old Mondoro on the Lower Zambezi, taking particular care before starting: explaining how we were to walk, act, and what he and the ranger would be doing. He always was checking the wind direction (sometimes the slightest of currents) to insure (rather, maximize probability) that animals, esp. elephants and buffalo didn't scent us. Even though we were often in sight of both, he was very careful to keep a safe (again, maximize probability) distance to minimize their becoming aware of us, keeping bushes, trees, between them and us. The many animals we encountered were invariably going about their business, and didn't know we were there. It could have been tempting to see how much closer we could get, but Roelof had told us at the beginning that there would be none of that, and if animals started moving in our direction as they fed or just moved about, we would back off, and keep our distance.
Toward the end of the walk, when he saw that there were quite a few elephants and buffalo in the general area, and that some were moving toward obstructing our way back to the camp, he radioed for a Land Cruiser to come pick us up.
As for Ruth getting dumped out of her canoe by a hippo, it's a questoin whether much could have been done about that. We had been told by our lead guide that we would zigzag from one side of the channel to another to stay in shallows where hippos could not hide underwater, but we happened to be going down the deep side when the hippo surfaced. Was there a false sense of security, or complacency? Or just bad luck. I prefer to think bad luck, for if this kind of experience occurred more than very rarely, I am sure the canoe trip would not be offered. Same situation in Botswana where the prof, was taken out of his mokoro by a croc. It these were common occurrences, these kinds of trips would not be offered. Rather bad for business.
So, yes, one cannot make game walks and canoe trips 100 percent safe, and that might keep some from the experience, but to have only ridden around our whole trip, would have denied us some of our most cherished memories.
I would walk and canoe again in a heart beat. But I would also want to insure that my camp operators, guide AND ranger were motivated, experienced and trained to do all that was prudent to maximize (not guarantee) safety.
Jim
But, one can do things to improve the odds of a safe trip--or not.
Everyone has his or her own safety zone. But beyond that, there are, I am sure, different levels of competence and safety conciousness at different safari locations.
One part is park rules. Another, is camp policies and training. Yet another is the competence and experience of the guide and ranger.
One could stay in an enclosed van on paved roads and be safer than in an off-road, open vehicle. Or in a lodge with fences all around rather than in an open tented camp.
Or, just stay home. Because it is rather interesting that when I do a slide show, for the 90 percent who are so excited about what I show and tell them, there invariably is at least one that tells me that they could never go to Africa. Too wild. Too alien. Too scary. For them, they really are much better off at the fenced San Diego game park or watching Animal Planet.
I particularly remember Roelof, our wonderful guide at Old Mondoro on the Lower Zambezi, taking particular care before starting: explaining how we were to walk, act, and what he and the ranger would be doing. He always was checking the wind direction (sometimes the slightest of currents) to insure (rather, maximize probability) that animals, esp. elephants and buffalo didn't scent us. Even though we were often in sight of both, he was very careful to keep a safe (again, maximize probability) distance to minimize their becoming aware of us, keeping bushes, trees, between them and us. The many animals we encountered were invariably going about their business, and didn't know we were there. It could have been tempting to see how much closer we could get, but Roelof had told us at the beginning that there would be none of that, and if animals started moving in our direction as they fed or just moved about, we would back off, and keep our distance.
Toward the end of the walk, when he saw that there were quite a few elephants and buffalo in the general area, and that some were moving toward obstructing our way back to the camp, he radioed for a Land Cruiser to come pick us up.
As for Ruth getting dumped out of her canoe by a hippo, it's a questoin whether much could have been done about that. We had been told by our lead guide that we would zigzag from one side of the channel to another to stay in shallows where hippos could not hide underwater, but we happened to be going down the deep side when the hippo surfaced. Was there a false sense of security, or complacency? Or just bad luck. I prefer to think bad luck, for if this kind of experience occurred more than very rarely, I am sure the canoe trip would not be offered. Same situation in Botswana where the prof, was taken out of his mokoro by a croc. It these were common occurrences, these kinds of trips would not be offered. Rather bad for business.
So, yes, one cannot make game walks and canoe trips 100 percent safe, and that might keep some from the experience, but to have only ridden around our whole trip, would have denied us some of our most cherished memories.
I would walk and canoe again in a heart beat. But I would also want to insure that my camp operators, guide AND ranger were motivated, experienced and trained to do all that was prudent to maximize (not guarantee) safety.
Jim
Mar 26th, 2007, 11:40 AM
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Has anyone seen "Hunter and Hunted" on the National Geographic channel about buffalo retaliating against the hunters who were tracking them, and turned the tables to go after the hunters?
Both separate instances but during each attack, the buffalo passed by several hunters in each group (all had rifles) to attack the person responsible for wounding them or those shooting at them. They targeted the right person and knew who they were going after both times.
Interesting that the other hunters (including the guides) couldn't aim and shoot fast enough to kill the buffalo before the buffalo exacted their revenge.
In one attack, the hunter was killed. In the other attack, the hunter was gored but the buffalo was killed before it could finish the job.
Interesting perspective from the scientists/biologists who believe that the buffalo might have a cognitive thinking process and believe they have an excellent memory and also know the difference between tourists and hunters. Go buffalo!!
Both separate instances but during each attack, the buffalo passed by several hunters in each group (all had rifles) to attack the person responsible for wounding them or those shooting at them. They targeted the right person and knew who they were going after both times.
Interesting that the other hunters (including the guides) couldn't aim and shoot fast enough to kill the buffalo before the buffalo exacted their revenge.
In one attack, the hunter was killed. In the other attack, the hunter was gored but the buffalo was killed before it could finish the job.
Interesting perspective from the scientists/biologists who believe that the buffalo might have a cognitive thinking process and believe they have an excellent memory and also know the difference between tourists and hunters. Go buffalo!!
Mar 26th, 2007, 12:03 PM
#17
A friend of my husband is in the hunting/fishing business and sent this to me. I can't vouch for the validity. Just passing it along. PH stands for professional hunter and from what I understand, there is quite a bit of testing they have to pass to be a PH.
Andy Truvello was the Guide. He is a qualified PH and quite a good one. In terms of our PH licenses a PH is also alowed to guide.
Andy is still in hospital and cannot be faulted for putting himself first in line to protect his clients- why the elephant didn't stop to finish him and deliberately went after the two women can only be guessed at. The elphant was in Musht and if it was that time of the month...I know that is a problem with female clients and lions but don't know about elephants.
If Andy can be faulted it was the "usual" PH turned pro guides mistake of trying too hard not to shoot an animal in self defence in case of being blacklisted as a bloodthirsty hunter. I don't know the animals body language -I wasn't there. Andy got a shot off as the ele hit him and he went down under it trying to reload. The elephant didn't even pause but took off after the daughter and killed her, then sought out the mother who was hiding and killed her, ignoring the husband. Poor bloke then got the vehicle, drove it to the scene and helped andy to it.
No Doubt we will get the low down in due course - like what rifle Andy was using- but gather he couldn't get a head shot in anyway- the elephant charged over an ant hill and came down over the top of him.
Andy Truvello was the Guide. He is a qualified PH and quite a good one. In terms of our PH licenses a PH is also alowed to guide.
Andy is still in hospital and cannot be faulted for putting himself first in line to protect his clients- why the elephant didn't stop to finish him and deliberately went after the two women can only be guessed at. The elphant was in Musht and if it was that time of the month...I know that is a problem with female clients and lions but don't know about elephants.
If Andy can be faulted it was the "usual" PH turned pro guides mistake of trying too hard not to shoot an animal in self defence in case of being blacklisted as a bloodthirsty hunter. I don't know the animals body language -I wasn't there. Andy got a shot off as the ele hit him and he went down under it trying to reload. The elephant didn't even pause but took off after the daughter and killed her, then sought out the mother who was hiding and killed her, ignoring the husband. Poor bloke then got the vehicle, drove it to the scene and helped andy to it.
No Doubt we will get the low down in due course - like what rifle Andy was using- but gather he couldn't get a head shot in anyway- the elephant charged over an ant hill and came down over the top of him.
Mar 26th, 2007, 12:40 PM
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Very tragic for all involved. Thanks for sharing.
As for finding fault or figuring out a way for this to never happen, my guess is that it's inevitable that sooner or later if we want to take a walk on the wild side $hits going to happen.
People even get mauled in zoos on occasion. If animal behavior was a predictible science, safaris in general would be pretty boring.
So yes, be as smart and find out if your guide is properly trained (if that's even possible) but until we stop mixing with animals there's not a heck of a lot that we can do to prevent these freak accidents.
Will this prevent me from taking the guided walks in Bots./Zimb. on my upcoming trip - hell no.
My 2 cents for the day!
As for finding fault or figuring out a way for this to never happen, my guess is that it's inevitable that sooner or later if we want to take a walk on the wild side $hits going to happen.
People even get mauled in zoos on occasion. If animal behavior was a predictible science, safaris in general would be pretty boring.
So yes, be as smart and find out if your guide is properly trained (if that's even possible) but until we stop mixing with animals there's not a heck of a lot that we can do to prevent these freak accidents.
Will this prevent me from taking the guided walks in Bots./Zimb. on my upcoming trip - hell no.
My 2 cents for the day!
Mar 26th, 2007, 03:58 PM
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We were charged last year in an open vehicle and the tusks literally passed over our heads as he reared back at the last minute. It was also a young male in musth. The ranger had given us the standard, "I can tell if an elephant is safe to approach" speech. Turned out he couldn't. When we showed a video of our initial contact with the elephant to a friend who trains rangers, he pointed out a series of behaviors that indicated a potentially dangerous animal. Whenever we heard the speech after that, we had flashbacks, especially before walks.
